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A&M Corner Forum Index  »  The Beat of The Brass: Herb Alpert/Tijuana Brass
      »  Buyer Beware: Omega Bootleg TJB CDs

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thetijuanataxi
Ruby Member


Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Posts: 519
Location: Argyle, TX
PostPosted: Sat 12/2/06 4:01 am
Subject: Buyer Beware: Omega Bootleg TJB CDs
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Has anyone ever heard of OMEGA Records? Ebay currently has 2 Herb Alpert CDs for auction new and sealed. JUST YOU AND ME (190057993408) and RISE (120060052712). Are these legitimate re-issues or some pirater's attempt on a quick buck?

David,
who has never heard of OMEGA Records......
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thetijuanataxi
Ruby Member


Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Posts: 519
Location: Argyle, TX
PostPosted: Sat 12/2/06 4:19 am
Subject:
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I've also found an auction for CONEY ISLAND (120058902103). What the devil is going on?

David,
mighty confused
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Harry
Moderator


Joined: 21 Jan 2002
Posts: 8217
Location: A&M Corner Southern Command in Sunny Central Florida
PostPosted: Sat 12/2/06 5:56 am
Subject:
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I'm pretty sure they're bootlegs. I've seen those listed, and we know that these have not been released through official channels.

Buyer beware.

Harry
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DAN BOLTON
Diamond Member


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 2257
Location: Central Indiana
PostPosted: Sat 12/2/06 10:32 am
Subject:
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At a Buy-It-Now price of just $49.50, it's a real bargain...considering that it probably cost 10 cents for the CD-R and about 30 minutes to record; this guy stands to make 100 bucks an hour!

I noticed that there were several copies of the JUST YOU AND ME CD for sale on eBay, for a lot less dough...

Dan
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DAN BOLTON

"As much as I love music, I never thought it was my life. I thought it was the vehicle I used to express my life." HERBIE MANN
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Rudy
His Master's Voice


Joined: 21 Jan 2002
Posts: 10974
Location: Wolverine Country! (aka Michigan)
PostPosted: Sat 12/2/06 1:06 pm
Subject:
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Report 'em to eBay. Thumbs Up Definitely pirated goods!

There's a VG++ promo copy of Just You & Me on vinyl, $3.99 plus $4 shipping. Damn good price for a WLP!
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lswilson99
Silver Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Essex, England
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 2:10 pm
Subject:
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I challenged the sellers to the effect that these were illegal bootlegs not authorised by the artist. Both responded along the lines that the albums were licenced to Omega Records of Brazil and have been available for the last 2/3 years.

I would be intersted in your thoughts as maybe this is no diffeent to the various Japanese releases of TJB/HA albums that have taken place over the years. If that is the case, I will be tempted to bid.

Len
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lswilson99
Silver Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Essex, England
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 2:27 pm
Subject:
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Summertime and Fandango are also on ebay. According to the sellers, Omega Records have been officially licenced to sell these items by A&M Records.

Len
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Mike Blakesley
Montana Movie Maven & Moderator


Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 5960
Location: Forsyth MT
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 3:00 pm
Subject:
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Quote:
officially licenced to sell these items by A&M Records

Well there's your proof right there that this is phony. A&M Records does not own those albums. Herb Alpert owns them himself.

(In case you were not aware, Universal and Herb reached an agreement whereby he reacquired the rights to all his masters. This is what led to the Shout Factory reissues of the more popular TJB albums.)

This has scam written all over it....if those were REALLY for sale legally, all of the music sellers like Amazon would be offering them.
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Mike B.
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lswilson99
Silver Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Essex, England
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 3:14 pm
Subject:
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Thanks, Mike.

I have gone back to one of the sellers on this basis and will let you know the response.

Len
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lswilson99
Silver Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Essex, England
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 3:22 pm
Subject:
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As a matter of interest, what was the agreement (presumably with A&M Records) that allowed the Japanse releases to take place?

Len
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Harry
Moderator


Joined: 21 Jan 2002
Posts: 8217
Location: A&M Corner Southern Command in Sunny Central Florida
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 3:34 pm
Subject:
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No Japanese releases have taken place since Herb acquired his masters, though some titles have remained available. The Shout! reissues in the States were handled through licensing, by another company in Japan.

Harry
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lswilson99
Silver Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Essex, England
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 4:05 pm
Subject:
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I am having one hell of an argument with an ebay seller of Just You And Me. He insists that Omega Records of Brazil have an official licence to sell this product. Is there any chace that this is a similar arrangement to that agreed for the Japanese releases?

Len
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Harry
Moderator


Joined: 21 Jan 2002
Posts: 8217
Location: A&M Corner Southern Command in Sunny Central Florida
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 4:51 pm
Subject:
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Practically zero chance at all, *particularly* with JUST YOU AND ME. Even if, by some chance, there are some papers signed somewhere in Brazil, then they've likely been done without Herb's consent.

It's just inconceivable to me that any official releases could have happened without someone around here finding out about it in advance.

Harry
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lswilson99
Silver Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Essex, England
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 6:04 pm
Subject:
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Maybe a member of this forum with appropriate connections could make some enquiries?

Len
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Mike Blakesley
Montana Movie Maven & Moderator


Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 5960
Location: Forsyth MT
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 9:52 pm
Subject:
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Well, while none of us has Herb's home phone number to call him and ask about it, there are many web-savvy people on this forum who always know months in advance about the most obscure releases -- like the recent Baja Marimba Band FRESH AIR (still available from HMV Japan).

The fact that these "releases" showed up on eBay and nowhere else is a dead giveaway right there, especially for hot albums like FANDANGO and RISE.

Also, I have been in the retail music business for 30 years and have sold hundreds of import CDs over the years. I can tell you I've never heard of "Omega Records" and I certainly know the story behind the Herb/Universal/Shout Factory arrangement.

I looked at a couple of the listings by this seller, and the Herb listings have had this added:

Quote:
This CD is legally produced with agreement with A&M by OMEGA RECORDS in Brazil. It is NOT a CDR. It is manufacctured LEGALLY at OMEGA Studios in BRAZIL. It has been produced for a few years there and sold on an Ebay affilate and anyone who writes different is misinformed, or has their own agenda for lying about it.


To research this, I googled for "Omega Records." No such listing came up...no big surprise there. I also question the phrase "an Ebay affiliate." I know of no eBay company that's in the music business, unless you want to count half.com (is it still around?). In fact, the only eBay affiliated companies I've heard of are PayPal and such.

So then I googled for "Omega Studio" and surprise, surprise...no listing for that either, but I did get a hit on a site selling a "desktop recording studio" called Omega Studio. I would bet my hat that these "reissues" are manufactured using this system, whatever it is.

I notice that none of these listings have PICTURES on them. Why don't you ask your eBay contact for a picture of one of the Alpert releases. Front and back, and the CD itself. If they're legitimate, they'll be happy to provide proof.

I'm not saying we are the definitive final word here, but in the nearly 10 years I've been here at the Corner, I don't think the people here have ever been wrong about something along these lines. (I wish it was really true though because I'd love to get some of those disks.)

UPDATE: The eBay seller mentioned has negative feedback revealing these Herb CDs as pirate copies. (See posts below)
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Mike B.

Last edited by Mike Blakesley on Mon 12/4/06 12:13 am; edited 3 times in total
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Mike
Diamond Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 1144
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 10:08 pm
Subject:
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The seller’s feedback had this item of interest:

"The item received was a CD-R, not a CD as described. (Herb Alpert - Rise)"

That was for an Omega Records product.
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DAN BOLTON
Diamond Member


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 2257
Location: Central Indiana
PostPosted: Sun 12/3/06 11:43 pm
Subject:
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Mike wrote:
The seller’s feedback had this item of interest:

"The item received was a CD-R, not a CD as described. (Herb Alpert - Rise)"

That was for an Omega Records product.



Kinda sums it all up, doesn't it?


Dan
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DAN BOLTON

"As much as I love music, I never thought it was my life. I thought it was the vehicle I used to express my life." HERBIE MANN
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Mike Blakesley
Montana Movie Maven & Moderator


Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 5960
Location: Forsyth MT
PostPosted: Mon 12/4/06 12:10 am
Subject:
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I looked further into the seller's feedback and found these 3:

Quote:
Shipping is fantastic. Herb Alpert Omega CDs - horrible sound quality, pure fake

CD described as new but is obviously a pirate copy

There is a difference between a BOOTLEG and a reissue. Herb Alpert CD is a BOOT


So there you go. I think we can say for certain these are bootlegs/pirates.

I wish we DID have Herb's phone number so we could tell him about this crap going on.
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Mike B.
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Rudy
His Master's Voice


Joined: 21 Jan 2002
Posts: 10974
Location: Wolverine Country! (aka Michigan)
PostPosted: Mon 12/4/06 2:32 am
Subject:
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Mike Blakesley wrote:
Quote:
officially licenced to sell these items by A&M Records

Well there's your proof right there that this is phony. A&M Records does not own those albums. Herb Alpert owns them himself.


Definitely. That's the seller's #1 mistake right there. This one practically *screams* "pirated item". I'd even wager that you get a CD-R when it shows up.

Plus, think about it: why would these low-interest albums be released in Brazil, of all places? The US, Japan and *maybe* Europe would be the most likely candidates to release anything.

Don't support these pirates. I'm hoping someone from Herb's office reads this thread, and takes action against these dishonest sellers. This is clear cut copyright violation.
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Dave
Crayola Member


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 7731
PostPosted: Mon 12/4/06 12:44 pm
Subject:
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Well, I'll wait for "The Real Thing" to come along, then! Buyer Beware... Link

I bought an LP, years ago, that suppossedly came with an "Official" CD reissue, that unfortunately depsite the fairly good sound quality was really a fake! I think the guy just burned it himself, but seemed to tote it as being a reissue, though luckily at least the Final Bidding Price was Fair! Thumbs Up



Dave
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Vince
New Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Mon 12/4/06 4:59 pm
Subject: They are bootlegs
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I have been reading about your discussion of Omega Records. If you go to the GEMM website and search for the seller known as "Antiques Records," you will find the entire Omega "catalog," containing thousands of CDs. Because he advertised CDs of records that have been long out of print, I ordered a few. They came very nicely packaged, including bar codes and even shrink wrapped. The CDs have paper labels on them. The inserts contain the original album covers and liner notes. When I played them, I could clearly hear that they are CD-R copies of vinyl records, cleaned up electronically. Pops, skips, and groove distortion were audible. There is no question in my mind that they are bootlegs.

I have been visiting this site often for several years in order to keep up on the A&M reissues, but this is my first posting. This is a wonderful site! Thanks for everything!

Vince
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Mike Blakesley
Montana Movie Maven & Moderator


Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 5960
Location: Forsyth MT
PostPosted: Mon 12/4/06 6:02 pm
Subject:
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Vince,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on one of the best first posts ever! Thanks for the detailed info. We look forward to your future contributions.

Quote:
bought an LP, years ago, that suppossedly came with an "Official" CD reissue, that unfortunately depsite the fairly good sound quality was really a fake!

Technically this is probably legal, but they should not be saying it's an "Official CD reissue." People who do this are simply selling LPs converted to CDs. The only thing that makes it legit is, they include the LP with the CD you get. But what this "Omega Studios" guy is doing however is complete theft.
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Mike B.
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rodb
New Member


Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Fri 12/8/06 10:44 am
Subject:
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Well, The Brass Are Comin' from "Omega Records" has showed up on eBay. This one has a picture and The A&M logo is on it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190060025819&rd=1&rd=1
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Rudy
His Master's Voice


Joined: 21 Jan 2002
Posts: 10974
Location: Wolverine Country! (aka Michigan)
PostPosted: Fri 12/8/06 10:51 am
Subject:
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There's no doubt about this being a scam. The seller's just grabbing at straws trying to cover the tracks now, with wild claims. And the fact that these are not available at Amazon is a dead giveaway these are BOGUS, and Mike confirms this through his music retail and wholesale connections.

We've made the appropriate annoucements on this site and on tijuanabrass.com also. If this seller tries to register and/or post here to complain, we'll have evidence we need to turn him or her over to Herb's legal counsel.

If enough of us complain to eBay about this seller peddling CD-Rs, too, we should be able to get his account revoked. With enough complaints, eBay should be wise enough to check all the feedback, which clearly shows that buyers received CD-Rs, which is against eBay policy.

Please, everyone: if you are ever in doubt about the availability of Herb's OFFICIAL product on CD, our availability listing here in the TJB forum should be your first stop. Anything outside this confirmed listing is a fraud and a fake. As we mentioned before, Herb controls his master tapes, and as of yet, anything from the remainder of his catalog has not been scheduled for release.

Buyer beware... *sigh*
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Dave
Crayola Member


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 7731
PostPosted: Fri 12/8/06 5:45 pm
Subject: Dr. Grabow OMEGA, COLLECTORS SERIES, FREEHAND... :-)--o~
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Too bad this is really not "the real deal"... A name like "Omega" sure seemed hopeful...

Guess we're back to The Long Wait... Neutral



Dave
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