Vocal fry and professionalism?

[WYBIMLA]

I recently heard a bit about an absurd debate about Vocal fry. I saw it again today so I thought to see what you guys thought about it.

Have you ever had an issue with vocal fry?



Was there ever this kind of discussion back in the 70s? I know Carpenters faced other challenges... this would exhaust me. Attacks from every angle. Should singers abandon it or use fry less?
Immediately I thought about Karen of course in relation to vocal fry even though she's not being referenced here. But, Karen practically pioneered its use or popularized it more in music or at least left an impression in peoples minds. Not a conscious choice I would think. There is a history of Karen and vocal fry. That's how she sang and if I'm not mistaken she spoke with it in some instances too, and to question anyone's professionalism...
Well, Karen is probably one of the most professional figures there was in the music world.

 

[Actorman]

As a singing technique, vocal fry is something that can be used to great effect. Many of the great singers have used is and Karen was a master at it. She never overused it. She knew when it would certain phrases a dramatic flair or emotional punch and was always very natural and restrained. Karen did not speak with vocal fry, at least in any interview or conversation I have ever seen or heard.

As a speech affectation, vocal fry sounds ridiculous, pretentious and fake. It is not a natural speech pattern. People who speak that way come across as air-headed, ditzy, immature and/or uneducated. (Not saying they really are any of those things, but that is the impression they give. They are hard to take seriously.) Kim Kardashian and the like intentionally speak that way because it's all part of their image. It's Hollywood. You would never hear a corporate executive, doctor, lawyer, etc. in the "real world" speak like that.

 

[WYBIMLA]

You know, upon second look at this thread I should have refrained from posting it. Lol
It just doesn't have all that much to do with Karen.
Oh well...

Then I thought more about potential criticisms... I imagine had Karen survived that day in '83... I've wondered with the advent of the internet...
(Btw, I think there's parts of it she would have loved about the internet!..BUT...)

I question: How would have she reacted to it?

In a world of like TMZ, youtube comments, twitter replies and so on...

People are not always respectful even where it's due... There she would be sitting in the piracy of her own home, relaxing and possibly seeing attacks thrown @ her...

I consider what some of the A&M executives and people said about how they didn't think Karen could have handled the criticism of her solo album had it been released. That leads to some concern about her state of mind in the face of the ruthless press and everything else.

So, I would worry a bit about KC in the digital age.

OR maybe she's more aggressive and stronger than it's been portrayed.

What do you think?

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I never heard the term until this thread posted. So I googled it and whoa, I never realized it was so much of a thing.

It doesn't bug me, I guess. (But I suppose now it will.)

 

[newvillefan]

I question: How would have she reacted to it?

In a world of like TMZ, youtube comments, twitter replies and so on...

In today's world of TMZ, Twitter etc, Karen would have been in her 60s. I think the new Internet mediums like that cater more to the Kardashian generation than Karen and Richard's.

I do wonder though if she was alive and had gotten through her illness, what she'd think looking back on the photos and video clips of herself from late 1981...

 

[Jeff]

In today's world of TMZ, Twitter etc, Karen would have been in her 60s. I think the new Internet mediums like that cater more to the Kardashian generation than Karen and Richard's.

I do wonder though if she was alive and had gotten through her illness, what she'd think looking back on the photos and video clips of herself from late 1981...

Perhaps Karen would view her before pics as an inspiration. I know I see my pre-treatment alcoholism photos vs. the post treatment photos and find a remarkable difference. From time to time I revisit these and I'm reminded that me + alcohol leads to a really bad photo op to say the very least.

 

[Jeff]

Re: vocal fry. Karen is a master and I've always heard this as natural to her voice and not an affectation. The fact that others try to perform and recreate those nuances is more obvious a determination and not natural expression.

 

[WYBIMLA]

About the vocal fry...

Good point about it coming very natural to Karen. Idk if she'd even heard about "vocal fry". Maybe Richard called it that at the time. Karen didn't have any lessons or anything like that, so if she did have control of it she sure seemed to know when and where to use it... I think some of it wasn't necessarily thought out. She just did it.
Those who are influenced by Karen may try to add in those nuances... without realizing that it may sound "put on" at this point. However, because Karen may have been one of the first to do it doesn't mean no one else can. Definitely if it's not your style and turns people off when you do it then that's a signal to stop doing it. Lol Good thing it worked for her. No corrections for Karen that's for sure. It's a voice where you sit back and learn how it's done.
To me she's a genius. A master at what she did. She may not have known it, but she was so incredibly gifted.
All the techniques you talk about in signing... Karen had it down.

About Karen looking at old photos of herself...

Could have been disgust, embarrassment, disappointment...
She would have probably felt bad that she worried her family and friends so much.
It may have motivated her to do better.
Or if she was still of a sick mindset it could trigger her to want to go back.
Assuming she was "cured of all her anorexia" (according to Levenkron )...
I don't think she'd be that bad though, but still not 100% after something like that.
She would be well into her 50s or 60s maybe before she felt at peace with herself.

About Karen handling the digital age of instantaneous and abundance of comments...

She would be be exposed to all kinds...

On another note, I thought of this one too, I've heard about celebs having to deal with crazy, obsessed, stalker fans. You know those morons that try to get into their homes and stuff. Idk if Karen would have to deal with that, but if she did I'm sure it would give her fright!

It's true by the time of "Windows 95" or any of that she's already be 45. Lol You have a point.
Into the 2000s she'd be a lot more matured I'd assume.

That was me still thinking of her how we'd always known her. Frozen in time as being young of course.

Once twitter came around in '06 she'd be 56, and I think she may have had an interest in communicating to fans. Maybe not right away. Maybe in a few years or something. Probably more than what Richard would be. My only evidence for that was her contributions to the fan club.
Or at least and account like that would be monitored by her "people"... or it would have been a "Carpenters" twitter account.
And by early 2000s they would have had a nice looking up-to-date website I'd assume. A bit Nicer than a certain other one I won't name.
So, far youtube comments are enabled on their vevo channel.
I think to a degree they'd be seeing the conversations about them all over the internet.
Perhaps they might try to stay away from it as much as they could.

And btw, I'm ignoring all the positives too. I'm sure there's the part of it where the public would come to embrace them more. Just like younger generations already have. Some of their image problems would have smoothed out I'd hope.

It's a tough balance for a successful person I'd imagine because you get about an equal amount of distorted feedback. Either too positive or too negative. So, you can't really pay too much attention... it's for your health really.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I'm pretty confident that if Karen were able to look at old photos of herself today, her immediate reaction would be "Sheeeez, what were we THINKING with the clothes??!"

Her being a female and all, the only other possible immediate reaction would be a similar statement about the hairstyles.

Because ALL girls think they looked ridiculous in those days, and Karen was a normal person, after all.

 

[byline]

On another note, I thought of this one too, I've heard about celebs having to deal with crazy, obsessed, stalker fans. You know those morons that try to get into their homes and stuff. Idk if Karen would have to deal with that, but if she did I'm sure it would give her fright!

Karen did have to deal with that. Several instances were mentioned in the Rolling Stone article: Up from Downey

 

[GaryAlan]

The ending of Rainbow Connection ("....dreamers and me...")
and, the ending of Somebody's Been Lyin' ("...too much in love..."),
are those instances of this vocal technique herein ?

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

The ending of Rainbow Connection ("....dreamers and me...")
and, the ending of Somebody's Been Lyin' ("...too much in love..."),
are those instances of this vocal technique herein ?

Yes and I love it.
Karen also does it for a split second near the end of "You're The One, listen at 3:26-3:27 on the word "love"
It seems to happen when Karen is singing a slow part or that she's relaxed in that part of the lyric at least that is how it sounds to me, I'm still amazed at how it happens, does it have to do with her breathing technique or is she just really confident in her delivery like she is really relaxed in how she feels or is it something she controls or it just happens out of no where? This would have been a great question to ask Karen had she lived and she took questions from fans. I would love love love to hear what her response would have been. Would she say...Gee I've never even thought about it or would she have said you know it's just something that happens and I don't really have any control over it.

I would have loved to be able to tell her as a fan that is one of the unique qualities she has as a singer and I love it and it gives me goosebumps.

 

[newvillefan]

Yes and I love it.
Karen also does it for a split second near the end of "You're The One, listen at 3:26-3:27 on the word "love"

There's a great example of it on 'Where Do I Go From Here' at 0:49, on the line "I can't get warm since you've been gone".