Ray Coleman Biography

[ullalume]

Talk was turning toward the Coleman biography on another thread, so thought I'd start a new one.

I attended a Carpenters get together back in either '94 or '95, and Ray Coleman spoke there.

He was a very gracious man, even offering me and a couple of others a lift back to the train station after it ended. I also remember someone asking him if he felt the Carpenters' creative output tailed off toward the end of their career. . .he stated in so many words "if "Now" is anything to go by, not at all."

I personally feel his biography is superbly written. He really took the choreography of the events of their lives and managed to intertwine them in a very thematically satisfying way.

It was overseen by Richard/Agnes, Randy Schmidt was free from that plus had Frenda and Itchie, but the only out and out conflict with Randy's book seems to be on perhaps the most pivotal point in Karen life. . . . the 1982 family session with Levenkron.

Writes Coleman - "Willingly, Agnes. . .put her arms around her. . . .the emotional electricity was so strong. . . both Harold and Levenkron had to turn away."
Then Levenkron states "I felt relieved. . . we got the hug for Karen."

Writes Schmidt - ""Agnes couldn't do it," says Itchie Ramone, who discussed the meeting with Karen and Levenkron after the family left."

So clearly someone's lying. . .Itchie or Levenkron, and I can't for the life of me see why her best friend would. Which means Agnes and Richard must have put pressure on the psychiatrist back in '93 to change the facts and save face for Mrs. Carpenter. But then that seems strange, since only 4 years earlier, in the TV movie, the scene with the family session, as depicted, backs up Itchie's statements. Maybe Richard and Agnes were so horrified by the truth in the biopic they tried to rewrite history 4 years later in the biography.

Either way, it does show how fame hungry Levenkron is/was. He was prepared to completely falsify information on his patient just so he could be a part of a best-selling biography. Kind of backs up what we already know about the man.

And of course, very sadly, it demonstrates that Agnes, though I have no doubt loved her daughter very much, just could not show it.

 

[song4u]

It was overseen by Richard/Agnes, Randy Schmidt was free from that plus had Frenda and Itchie, but the only out and out conflict with Randy's book seems to be on perhaps the most pivotal point in Karen life. . . . the 1982 family session with Levenkron.

Writes Coleman - "Willingly, Agnes. . .put her arms around her. . . .the emotional electricity was so strong. . . both Harold and Levenkron had to turn away."
Then Levenkron states "I felt relieved. . . we got the hug for Karen."

Writes Schmidt - ""Agnes couldn't do it," says Itchie Ramone, who discussed the meeting with Karen and Levenkron after the family left."

So clearly someone's lying. . .Itchie or Levenkron, and I can't for the life of me see why her best friend would. Which means Agnes and Richard must have put pressure on the psychiatrist back in '93 to change the facts and save face for Mrs. Carpenter. But then that seems strange, since only 4 years earlier, in the TV movie, the scene with the family session, as depicted, backs up Itchie's statements. Maybe Richard and Agnes were so horrified by the truth in the biopic they tried to rewrite history 4 years later in the biography.

Either way, it does show how fame hungry Levenkron is/was. He was prepared to completely falsify information on his patient just so he could be a part of a best-selling biography. Kind of backs up what we already know about the man.

And of course, very sadly, it demonstrates that Agnes, though I have no doubt loved her daughter very much, just could not show it.

My understanding is that the both are correct. What Itchie and Frenda (I think) said was that Agnes couldn't say I love you - not that she didn't hug her. Two different things.

 

[ullalume]

My understanding is that the both are correct. What Itchie and Frenda (I think) said was that Agnes couldn't say I love you - not that she didn't hug her. Two different things.

that never occurred to me. If that's the case I suppose both authors tailored the info to satisfy their narrative needs. Coleman removed the lack of "I love you" to show Agnes in a positive light. Schmidt removed the presence of a hug to show her in a negative one.

So maybe I was a little hard on Lenvenkron. . . .naaaa. . . life's too short.

 

[milwaukeeburt]

On a related subject, in Randy's book on page 240, Itchie is quoted as saying "she (Karen) was just so loving and so wonderful, and then the next thing you know you're sitting there across the table from your best friend all bruised up." Did she mean physically or metaphorically? Did Tom actually hurt Karen? If so, this is without a doubt the most disturbing quote in the entire book. Does anyone have more insight?

 

[GaryAlan]

Coleman's biography is littered with "quotes" from/by Levenkron .
I am trying to compile a list of those quotes, if only to demonstrate that much of what he is quoted as saying is unreliable, if not misguided.
I'm not implying lies, or a 'cover-up' (i.e., TV show Current Affair from 1985(?))--just to be extra careful when reading his words.
Given the sensitivity and medical aspects of Karen's plight, I do my best to give all who knew her (personally ) the benefit of the doubt.
Karen's life was a ".. beautiful song to the world.."
However, I do try not to read biographical material into the songs she sang.
The Coleman biography, while detailed in certain respects (recording career) is never the less, not entirely clear at other junctures.
(recall page 286,..Made In America is a "remarkably powerful album" and was "very profitable")
(recall page 290, Karen in "fine fettle" performing 'Sing' on Julio Iglesias TV show in Paris-late -September(?) 1981)
Newsletter #93 January 1982 gives more detail on that TV Show appearance. It's that same video on Youtube where
Karen sings Top Of The World, and she is in very bad condition.

 

[aaflyer98]

Milwaukeeburt..... I am purely speculating and have no evidence, but I think your supposition is possibly correct. There was another line in the book from Itchie that said if she was ever in the same room again with Tom Burris, he'd better see her first. Sadly, I think this all fits together.

 

[ullalume]

On a related subject, in Randy's book on page 240, Itchie is quoted as saying "she (Karen) was just so loving and so wonderful, and then the next thing you know you're sitting there across the table from your best friend all bruised up." Did she mean physically or metaphorically? Did Tom actually hurt Karen? If so, this is without a doubt the most disturbing quote in the entire book. Does anyone have more insight?

Yes, that was very ominous. . .especially with the reference to wearing "large sunglasses and sitting in the dark". I felt Schmidt could have gone further here. I mean if the subject matter is hinted at, it may as well be addressed head on. Even if he'd asked Itchie during his interview to elaborate on the subject and she'd refused, he could have mentioned this fact in the book. Mr Tom Burris, 73. . .liar, user, wife beater. Nice.

 

[aaflyer98]

And with his "silence" being secured by Richard and their "agreement". Oh how I hope "Little Girl Blue" is made into a movie and the world can judge Burris for what he is.

 

[ullalume]

Coleman's biography is littered with "quotes" from/by Levenkron .
I am trying to compile a list of those quotes, if only to demonstrate that much of what he is quoted as saying is unreliable, if not misguided.
I'm not implying lies, or a 'cover-up' (i.e., TV show Current Affair from 1985(?))--just to be extra careful when reading his words.
Given the sensitivity and medical aspects of Karen's plight, I do my best to give all who knew her (personally ) the benefit of the doubt.
Karen's life was a ".. beautiful song to the world.."
However, I do try not to read biographical material into the songs she sang.
The Coleman biography, while detailed in certain respects (recording career) is never the less, not entirely clear at other junctures.
(recall page 286,..Made In America is a "remarkably powerful album" and was "very profitable")
(recall page 290, Karen in "fine fettle" performing 'Sing' on Julio Iglesias TV show in Paris-late -September(?) 1981)
Newsletter #93 January 1982 gives more detail on that TV Show appearance. It's that same video on Youtube where
Karen sings Top Of The World, and she is in very bad condition.

Hey Gary,

All good points. But just thought I'd point out that, as a Brit (as was Coleman), the term "fine fettle" is more akin to saying "high spirits" than commenting on physical appearance. . .and I think we all agree that Karen in late '81 practically bounced around her TV and radio appearances. . .literally in the case of the Iglesias show where she jumps up and down next to a bass player. She looked terrible, but must have been overcompensating for all the angst going on in her personal life.

 

[newvillefan]

On a related subject, in Randy's book on page 240, Itchie is quoted as saying "she (Karen) was just so loving and so wonderful, and then the next thing you know you're sitting there across the table from your best friend all bruised up." Did she mean physically or metaphorically? Did Tom actually hurt Karen? If so, this is without a doubt the most disturbing quote in the entire book. Does anyone have more insight?

I'm fairly sure that was meant metaphorically on Itchie's part. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise that I have ever seen or read anywhere else.

 

[ullalume]

I'm fairly sure that was meant metaphorically on Itchie's part. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise that I have ever seen or read anywhere else.

yeah, you're probably right, Stephen. If physical abuse had taken place it most certainly would have been discussed openly in the book. . .and though, understandably, Richard, Werner etc have skirted around Burris in interviews. . .basically saying "bad idea". . .had they had an inkling more was taking place then something would have materialized now.

So, giving the man the benefit of the doubt, I'll rephrase my earlier statement : Mr Tom Burris, 73, liar, user. . . .s**t.

 

[Rumbahbah]

The Ray Coleman biography is good but there are times when it loses its objectivity and starts sounding very partial (particularly the hatchet job it does on Karen's solo album and the over-praising of the quality and success of Made in America, for instance). I've always viewed it to some extent as Richard's version of the story, since he had editorial control over it, which would explain the bias on the above topics and also why certain other aspects (how the Carpenter family dynamic affected Karen and her health, plus her marriage to Tom Burris) are glossed over. Clearly there were certain things that Richard didn't want to discuss in the book and that constrained what Ray Coleman could include. As a standalone book, it feels incomplete and it's best read alongside Little Girl Blue, which fills in many of the gaps it leaves in the story and tells things from a different perspective - including people like Frenda who is barely mentioned in the Coleman book, despite her closeness to Karen.

Re Agnes and the 1982 therapy session, I'd agree to an extent that the two books emphasise different points to support a certain narrative (Agnes was/wasn't supportive of Karen), but the clincher would be how it was portrayed in The Karen Carpenter Story, which was approved by the family. I'd say that depiction more clearly supports the Little Girl Blue version than the Coleman version, so I'd guess the Coleman version is an effort at damage limitation that deliberately omits some key points.

The fact that Steven Levenkron wouldn't be interviewed for Little Girl Blue is a shame as it would be interesting to see how he would put things now, particularly as given the family's distrust of him, he was somewhat fighting against the chief narrative in the Coleman book. I suspect that the limited knowledge of how to tackle anorexia in the early 1980s would have made it hard for anyone to treat Karen successfully.

By the way, for my two cents on the meeting with Karen and Itchie with Karen wearing dark glasses mentioned in Little Girl Blue, I took it to mean that Itchie suspected physical violence but Karen didn't admit to it.

 

[GaryAlan]

Some very thoughtful folks, here!
As, the commentary regarding the two extant biographies are very insightful, indeed.
I will confess that since my first (and only) reading of the Coleman book in 1994, I have rarely taken a second look at it.
I read Randy's book twice when I first obtained it.
I am now embarking on a re-reading and comparison of the two books.
This forum keeps me on my toes!
Thanks to all.

 

[Mark-T]

Imagine how everyone involved in Karen's plight- good, bad, ugly- must feel whenever they her her voice on the radio. Haunted forever.

 

[GaryAlan]

This is perhaps a bit maniacal, but after Karen's untimely passing, I could hardly bring myself to listen to her sing for many months.
I dare say it was October 1983 , upon buying Voice of The Heart, that I broke down and listened to an album all the way through.
Actually, as I was in Illinois at the time, there were quite a number of radio programs paying tribute to Karen on that eve, and even months afterward.
To this day, my mind finds it incomprehensible that she is gone.
How those in her immediate milieu coped with the loss, well, that too is hard to comprehend.
Haunted forever sums it up.

 

[song4u]

By the way, for my two cents on the meeting with Karen and Itchie with Karen wearing dark glasses mentioned in Little Girl Blue, I took it to mean that Itchie suspected physical violence but Karen didn't admit to it.

This was my take on it at first as well. Since there was a legal settlement between Richard and Tom, I have always sort of assumed that it was a "If you say something bad about me, I'll smear you and your family in the press" kind of situation. That could be why no one came out and said it. Karen was very careful not to let it get out in the media what she was going through during her lifetime.

This kind of stuff makes me think, don't we have enough of our own issues to deal with that we keep going over this again? Just sayin.

 

[song4u]

This is perhaps a bit maniacal, but after Karen's untimely passing, I could hardly bring myself to listen to her sing for many months.
I dare say it was October 1983 , upon buying Voice of The Heart, that I broke down and listened to an album all the way through.
Actually, as I was in Illinois at the time, there were quite a number of radio programs paying tribute to Karen on that eve, and even months afterward.
To this day, my mind finds it incomprehensible that she is gone.
How those in her immediate milieu coped with the loss, well, that too is hard to comprehend.
Haunted forever sums it up.

Everything released after she passed away has been like a precious gift.

 

[GaryAlan]

I must say, it never dawned on me back then (1983) that there would be anything more after Voice of the Heart.
So, yes, it is wonderful to have all of the (now) released material to enjoy.
I recall thoroughly enjoying Lovelines upon first hear.
In other words, I really have to divorce my ethereal listening experience from my knowledge of Karen's tragedy.
That separation allows me to enter into a realm prevalent , for me, in the 1970s , when I would play Carpenters music
and be entranced/enthralled. But, it has taken a long time to force that mind/heart separation within, so as to be enthralled once more.

On a more personal aside (again, sorta crazy): June 1993 I was nearly murdered by being shot during an armed robbery,
the only thing that went through my mind at that time was Karen's voice singing Close To You.
Take from that what you will!

 

[ullalume]

Wow, Gary. That's crazy, man.

 

[Jamesj75]

Gary, thank God you survived.

 

[GaryAlan]

And, I probably should preface the above:
Normally I would not feel compelled to offer such personal information, however,
in my life experiences, it really has been a lifesaver, of sorts, to hear that Voice.
I would imagine that everyone involved with this forum has their own Karen story in their lives.
Like Richard said: Though Karen is not here,physically, she is alive in our hearts and minds".

 

[Mark-T]

Wow, GaryAlan! Wow.

 

[mr J.]

On a related subject, in Randy's book on page 240, Itchie is quoted as saying "she (Karen) was just so loving and so wonderful, and then the next thing you know you're sitting there across the table from your best friend all bruised up." Did she mean physically or metaphorically? Did Tom actually hurt Karen? If so, this is without a doubt the most disturbing quote in the entire book. Does anyone have more insight?

Itchie was probably referring to Karen being emotionally or psychologically "bruised".If any type of physical incident did happen,it would have been mentioned in Randy's book.While Richard may have refrained from speaking about it,there was nothing stopping anyone else from talking about it.And,Randy interviewed several close associates and confidantes of Karen.

Incidentally,I would caution forum members to not view every detail they read in a book or media article(generally speaking) as being 100% accurate. Authors are human-and they do make errors in the way they present facts or information.

Regarding Karen,a case in point would be a comment in the Ella Fitzgerald bio "First Lady Of Song" where the author mentioned Ella's version of "Ordinary Fool" and stated "when Karen Carpenter recorded the song for her last album,she very much followed Ella's vocal line". The author obviously didn't research the history of Karen's version-and made the erroneous conclusion that Karen recorded "Ordinary Fool" in 1983 for Voice Of The Heart.In actuality,Karen recorded the track in 1976,a year before Ella recorded her version-and obviously,she didn't follow Ella's vocal line,as the author suggested.Richard,by the way,is aware of this issue-and he has commented on it.

 

[Natesmommy77]

I must say, it never dawned on me back then (1983) that there would be anything more after Voice of the Heart.
So, yes, it is wonderful to have all of the (now) released material to enjoy.
I recall thoroughly enjoying Lovelines upon first hear.
In other words, I really have to divorce my ethereal listening experience from my knowledge of Karen's tragedy.
That separation allows me to enter into a realm prevalent , for me, in the 1970s , when I would play Carpenters music
and be entranced/enthralled. But, it has taken a long time to force that mind/heart separation within, so as to be enthralled once more.

On a more personal aside (again, sorta crazy): June 1993 I was nearly murdered by being shot during an armed robbery,
the only thing that went through my mind at that time was Karen's voice singing Close To You.
Take from that what you will!

That's wild Gary! I echo the thank God you survived. I can relate somewhat. The day before my son Nate was born, I didn't feel him move inside of me. I finally went to the hospital to get checked out and after a few hours of being monitored overnight, the doc came in and did an ultrasound. I didn't have any amniotic fluid left and he was born via emergency c-section minutes after that ultrasound. He wasn't breathing when they got him out so if I had waited any longer to go to the hospital, we would've lost him. But after my priest gave me last rites and prayed over me, and the anesthesiologist was trying to give me the spinal (he tried 13 times!!!!), I was terrified and I kept hearing fragments of Karen singing different songs. As it was, he never was successful and I was knocked out. It wasn't meant for my husband or I to see Nate born. Thankfully neither of us have to live with the mental image of him not breathing and being resuscitated. But it was her voice that I heard as they were trying to get into my back. Her voice is one of my happy places.

 

[aaflyer98]

Wow! Gary! Nates Mommy! I'm glad you are here!