Neil Sedaka Incident in 1975 - 2 Questions

[ringves]

Lately I've been reading articles out of Randy Schmidt's YOM Carpenters Reader. Just finished the Rona Barrett article dealing with the Neil Sedaka incident and two questions came to mind.

Q#1. As I recall, "Solitaire" was heading up the charts at the time this incident occurred. I remember thinking: "Oh, this isn't going to help sales." Any thoughts on whether the single might have done better had the bad press not occurred while the single was on the charts? Might it have gone higher than - what was it? - 16 or 17 ?

Q#2. If the opening act does things - for example, introducing celebrities in the audience - which would annoy most headliners, how do you deal with that if the opening act refuses to follow convention or explicit instructions? Short of firing the opening act, the only course of action I can see is for the headliner to make a "surprise" appearance at the very start of the show. The purpose would be to say "hello" to the audience, introduce the celebrities and then tell the audience what a terrific guy you have opening up the show. This approach would have been a little unorthodox, but it would have achieved the desired effect of showing Sedaka who was boss without all the nastiness of what did in fact happen.

I can imagine Frank Sinatra firing his opening act over the things that occurred and no one would have given it much thought because he had a "tough guy, no nonsense" image. The C's were hurt by this in large part because of their image. Right or wrong under the circumstances, it was out of character and therefore unexpected.

Final comment: I don't recall how much time elapsed between the firing of Sedaka and the later cancellation of the British and Japanese tours. It wasn't long. (Does anyone know the dates?) In any case, they would not have had to work with Sedaka much longer anyway due to the progression of Karen's illness. Because of this, it's a shame that the decision to fire him was made.

 

[byline]

The Sedaka firing was unfortunate all the way around. I can't recall the exact timeline between the firing, the end of their Vegas run and the cancellation of the tours, but it wasn't very long. But I also think this was one of those things that, if Richard hadn't fired Neil, then some other meltdown would have occurred due to their exhaustion from the relentless touring combined with Richard's and Karen's respective health issues. This is where I really wonder where on earth Sherwin Bash was in all of this. It should have been his job to handle problems between Richard and Neil, before it got so out of hand. And it should have been his job to guide their careers along a more sustainable path.

 

[mr J.]

It's amazing that "Solitaire" charted as high as it did.While It's one of K&R's finest recordings,it's not really top-40 material-even by 1975 standards.Too "torchy" for top-40.K&R had the amazing ability to get a lot of Billie Holiday/Sarah Vaughan/Rosemary Clooney-type material on the top-40 charts.

In retrospect,the Neil Sedaka incident was probably a good thing.K&R spent too much time touring,and this was affecting their health and reducing their time spent in the studio.(no new album in 1974).K&R rarely toured after 1976,and this resulted in much more material being recorded.(particularly in 1978 & 1980-K&R recorded three albums in the former and almost four albums in the latter).

 

[newvillefan]

This is where I really wonder where on earth Sherwin Bash was in all of this. It should have been his job to handle problems between Richard and Neil, before it got so out of hand. And it should have been his job to guide their careers along a more sustainable path.

By his own admission, Sherwin has said that he toured them way too much, adding that he wouldn't allow any of his artists nowadays to tour so heavily. I always remember this quote from one of the documentaries:

"It was, like, my wrong doing and the record label's wrong doing. Because of that [the debacle with Neil Sedaka], I'm fired, Neil Sedaka's fired and subsequently Neil Sedaka fired me for putting them together [on tour].

It was a mess and I think, graciously and with hindsight, Sherwin took part of the blame for not being there for them. Interestingly, years later, didn't Sherwin become Richard's manager again?

 

[A&M Retro]

I think that's precisely why Sherman had a change of heart....because he was representing Richard again. If you remember, he said at one point (I think in the Coleman book) that, compared to most people who hold down a 9-5 job, the Carpenters were 'on vacation' even during their most grueling tour schedules.

My brother dealt with him personally when he was General Manager of a Six Flags-type place in Kansas City called Worlds of Fun in 1975. The park contacted Sherwin about Carpenters playing there, and he responded very cockily that they were already booked for Kansas City and that they only play larger venues.

Lo and behold, the first of two shows they were scheduled for at Memorial Hall (5/11/75) was mysteriously cancelled, followed by the second show being cancelled a few days later (I had 3rd row tickets bought for the second show). No reason was given, but it was most likely due to poor sales. After the cancellation, Sherwin called the park back to say they were available that weekend after all. The park then told him in so many words, 'Thanks, but no thanks'.

What sucks for me is my brother would pick all the visiting artists up from the airport, and he obviously would have taken me along to meet them.

 

[goodjeans]

...poor sales to me seems unlikely. I had seem them 3 times at the Valley Forge Music Fair (a smallish venue) and believe that the entire run was sold out.

 

[A&M Retro]

I always thought that theory was an odd one, too, but I can't think of any other reason if they tried to fill the date after the other two cancelled. I wish I knew more. I do remember it being announced that the first show was cancelled on the radio. Then, about two days later, they announced the second show being cut. Very weird. I still have the unused ticket. It just about killed me. ;( Memorial Hall was in a crappy part of town and seated about 3,000.

I also wondered in later years if it had something to do with Karen's illness, but that's unlikely, as she didn't stop performing until the fall of that year. Maybe somebody got sick in the band? Who knows?

 

[byline]

I think that's precisely why Sherman had a change of heart....because he was representing Richard again. If you remember, he said at one point (I think in the Coleman book) that, compared to most people who hold down a 9-5 job, the Carpenters were 'on vacation' even during their most grueling tour schedules.

While I agree that they were probably more pampered than most of us working-class folks, I also think it was hard work, no two ways about it, and hard to live with. Hubby used to do a lot of business travel, and the travel, itself, along with so much time away from home, eating in restaurants, etc., was wearing. If you're a person who needs a home base from which to recuperate from the stresses of work, then being on the road, away from the comforts and grounding of home, will take their toll. I have a feeling that that insular environment was the perfect incubator to turn their perfectionism into OCD behaviors.

 

[A&M Retro]

I agree. 250 days a year of touring and the rest of the time recording is beyond brutal. First Class flights and hotel suites only go so far.

 

[ringves]

If you were Sherwin Bash back then, what would you have done to resolve the conflict? The opening act is introducing celebs in the audience and by doing so is infuriating the headliner. What do you do?

 

[goodjeans]

...inquiring mind<<< really wants to know now!

I always thought that theory was an odd one, too, but I can't think of any other reason if they tried to fill the date after the other two cancelled. I wish I knew more. I do remember it being announced that the first show was cancelled on the radio. Then, about two days later, they announced the second show being cut. Very weird. I still have the unused ticket. It just about killed me. ;( Memorial Hall was in a crappy part of town and seated about 3,000.

I also wondered in later years if it had something to do with Karen's illness, but that's unlikely, as she didn't stop performing until the fall of that year. Maybe somebody got sick in the band? Who knows?

 

[Mike Blakesley]

how do you deal with that if the opening act refuses to follow convention or explicit instructions? Short of firing the opening act, the only course of action I can see is for the headliner to make a "surprise" appearance at the very start of the show.

That wouldn't work usually, because the headliner isn't usually "stage ready" until just before they go onstage. To have to make a surprise appearance an hour before their actual onstage time would louse up their pre-show routine. I don't know about the Carpenters' procedures, but many acts have a very specific pre-show "ritual" they go through to get ready....it can be anything from meditating to praying to ingesting various types of legal or illegal substances, getting a massage, exercising...the list of possibilities is endless. If the concert venue is not connected to the hotel where the performers are staying, the main act may not even be on the premises until just minutes before they are scheduled to go on.

 

[newvillefan]

If the concert venue is not connected to the hotel where the performers are staying, the main act may not even be on the premises until just minutes before they are scheduled to go on.

In their case, they were in the building itself (obviously backstage) because they heard Neil make the announcement over the PA.

 

[Mark-T]

After Laughter in the Rain hit it big, it seemed to me like Sedaka was pretty full of himself. Especially with Elton John being part of his team.

 

[A&M Retro]

Yeah, Neil's ego seemed quite healthy in that period where he was red hot. Didn't last too long.

 

[byline]

If you were Sherwin Bash back then, what would you have done to resolve the conflict? The opening act is introducing celebs in the audience and by doing so is infuriating the headliner. What do you do?

I don't have a clear answer, but it seems to me there should have been someone on the management team there with them to handle anything that came up (because you just never know what's going to happen). Richard had a meltdown over what Sedaka was doing, and he was entitled to do so. But he shouldn't have been in charge of the decision to fire Sedaka, because I think once he cooled down, even he realized that was an overreaction. But by then, it was too late. Having someone between the two of them to negotiate, rather than just flat out fire Sedaka, would have at least taken the emotional heat out of the situation. As it was, Sedaka could claim that he was fired for being "too good" ... and no one but Richard or Karen would dispute his account of what happened. Because, in fact, the enthusiastic fan reaction that Sedaka was receiving, which the Carpenters were not, may have played into Richard's fury. It seems like it was the last straw of something that had been building almost from the time Sedaka began performing as their opening act.

To answer the OP's question about the timeline: A poster on the Neville Avenue Carpenters Facebook group said that Karen's hospitalization occurred within a few days of Sedaka being fired, and the British and Japanese tour cancellations followed less than a week later.

 

[goodjeans]

I don't have a clear answer, but it seems to me there should have been someone on the management team there with them to handle anything that came up (because you just never know what's going to happen). Richard had a meltdown over what Sedaka was doing, and he was entitled to do so. But he shouldn't have been in charge of the decision to fire Sedaka, because I think once he cooled down, even he realized that was an overreaction. But by then, it was too late. Having someone between the two of them to negotiate, rather than just flat out fire Sedaka, would have at least taken the emotional heat out of the situation. As it was, Sedaka could claim that he was fired for being "too good" ... and no one but Richard or Karen would dispute his account of what happened. Because, in fact, the enthusiastic fan reaction that Sedaka was receiving, which the Carpenters were not, may have played into Richard's fury. It seems like it was the last straw of something that had been building almost from the time Sedaka began performing as their opening act.

To answer the OP's question about the timeline: A poster on the Neville Avenue Carpenters Facebook group said that Karen's hospitalization occurred within a few days of Sedaka being fired, and the British and Japanese tour cancellations followed less than a week later.

I have read that Karen was very depressed after this incident. I also read that Karen and Neil did a medley that brought the house down. I would love to see/hear any and every part of this. I wish that someone had taped one of these performances.

 

[Dave60640]

I will go as far as "re-quoting" an un named insider to the situation at the time... "Honestly what did you expect" "Karen and Rich were never properly represented and were left to their own devices way too many times." And given the personal and professional issues at the time, I would've done the same if not more. Neil was, and still can be, a pompous ass when given the chance. And yes, I've said that to his face. Blah, blah, blah... To answer the original question...Solitaire killed Solitaire...too torchy and a "go no where " kinda song. Not top 40 materiel at all. The Sedaka bs was just that...bs

 

[byline]

Dave, a lot of food for thought in your reply. I love Solitaire ... just didn't consider it a good "single" release. But as an album cut, it is one of my favorites. Karen's depth in interpreting the music and lyrics is mesmerizing.

 

[Dave60640]

I would never even try to argue KCs interpretation...spot on as always. It's the song that gets in the way...I cannot describe it, it just drags. I just don't like it. I've heard it sung by other vocalists and God how it hurts! KC gave that corpse the best life it lived but it was just that... A corpse. My own .02 in current us currency

 

[ringves]

Oh, oh. We have some Solitaire bashers here on the website !

I'm with byline on that recording. It showcases Karen very well and the song has what I would call great "sweep" or spectacle - terms that I would normally reserve for describing epic films. In my view, the song strives to be very ambitious and it is an "adult song". I think it was Paul Grein who once suggested that the C's should have released "This Masquerade" rather than "Sing" in 1973 because it would have said to the world that the C's were mature, adult artists.

Having said all that, I do agree that the recording is a tad too slow. But I'll take it as it is. Overall it's one of my faves.

 

[Dave]

The volatility of any of these performers is likely to not avoid any kind of conflict...

Neil seemingly well-seasoned and experienced in this sort of thing should have been at least someone of a guiding light in this sort of thing (he was much older & did have a family & had only in the then-recent years w/ his comeback returned to performing & touring) to Karen & Richard, still young & new & admittedly still green, too, as their careers were still taking off & wildly in demand as far as being a Live commodity would go... (Just, who, then would suitably be an appropriate opening act, if it were someone else, as in an even younger rookie likely to be grabbing the spotlight & dethroning the seemingly immortal Carps?)

As for "Solitaire", it could have easily been left as something Neil recorded on one of his attempted comebacks, recorded w/ a then-new 10cc, left as filler, insignificant AOR radio balladry, or perhaps just something I think Andy Williams did well enough that no one else could even try to top, as his version was one of the first covers, if it made an almost impressive impact when Johnny Mathis did it (though rendered as an also-ran as would go for someone like Jerry Vale)...

But, depending on my mood, Karen tackles the song well, and a female perspective is as easily welcome, in a mainly-male dominated field, where the only other name attempted I could think of would be the likes of Cleo Laine...

Again, "Solitaire" is what I can take or leave, and I think I had to have had The Ray Conniff Singers' version as my intro to it, before any of my other MOR-phase in my listening completely took over & anything like that one, just to name one song/artist, would be further explored in this genre...

Ultimately, a far cry from the music that I was listening to before it, that certainly the great popularity of was still raging against soft rock, mellow pop & adult contemporary... Such as these ones, keeping themselves relevant, regardless of what any "This Masquerade", or "Sing", or ___(Insert Song)___ at whatever time could try to do...


-- Dave

 

[byline]

Dave, while I agree with you that Neil could and should have been more of a guiding light, I wonder if Richard would have been receptive to that? And Neil's personality just seemed to rub Richard the wrong way. Whether Neil really was full of himself, as some feel (and I admit I tended toward that opinion, too) or just full of false bravado, his own personality clash with Richard may have prevented him from doing so. Sadly, that water flowed under the bridge a long time ago.

 

[Jeff]

Back in '75 I had been loooong awaiting this release. I mean loooong awaiting. With Postman and Only yesterday I thought we were off to a good start. Then came playtime and the album seemed looong and depressed. Since I've embraced depression and run with it. My fave lp with stunning vocals. Had the duo continued recording I wonder if this would indeed hold my top spot? Anywho, all that said Solitaire is an extremely difficult song to nail. I like the torch chorus and the ultimate mastery and command Karen has over her now well-developed lower register. This song along with the opening verse of OY and I Can Dream are demonstrative of her interpretive brilliance. Need I say more?

 

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

Hindsight is 20/20....yes, a slow choice for a single, but put it in perspective - this was just the beginning of the sweeping big pop ballad era; Barry Manilow's "Mandy" had only hit the charts about six months earlier and there were definitely other songs on the radio those years that weren't afraid to be slow. (Anybody else remember Prelude's a capella version of "After The Gold Rush"?).....