Music Music Music track info & sequencing

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mr J.

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A track listing and order of sequence(from the special)was requested for Music Music Music -here it is:

A Song For You(intro) K&R
Without A Song- K&R with Ella,John Davidson & Nelson Riddle's Orchestra
I Got Rhythm K&R with Nelson Riddle's Orchestra
Ain't Misbehavin' Ella with Nelson Riddle's Orchestra
Dizzy Fingers Richard
You'll Never Know John Davidson with Nelson Riddle's Orchestra
Karen/Ella Medley Karen & Ella with Nelson Riddle's Orchestra
Slaughter On Tenth Avenue Richard
When I Fall In Love Karen (with Peter Knight's Orchestra,1978)
You're Just In Love Karen & John Davidson
How High The Moon Ella
Medley Karen & Richard(Knowing When To Leave,Someday,etc)
 
This was their best tv special to date and the medley is what outshines the entire special for me. However, when you look at the track list above once again it seems the Carpenters were identifying with an older audience crowd, why is that, they were still young and hip yet having guests like Ella and John was not helping draw in that younger appeal. They already worked with John Davidson, did they really need to have him on again? I mean think of all the top 40 male and female stars they could have included and still kept that theme of Music, Music, Music...keeping Ella they could have had a big band sound throwback but also kept the top 40 feel so you draw in both types of audiences for a wider appeal.

As much as I love this special and I really do (nothing I can change at this point) were they still walking down that same road of appealing to the older audiences? Olivia had a tv special out at the same time, Hollywood Nights and brought guests that were current in today's music industry.
 
They already worked with John Davidson, did they really need to have him on again? I mean think of all the top 40 male and female stars they could have included and still kept that theme of Music, Music, Music...keeping Ella they could have had a big band sound throwback but also kept the top 40 feel so you draw in both types of audiences for a wider appeal.

I think this is where the MMM special missed a beat. Ok, so keep Ella for old-times-sake as one of their idols, but why didn't they have Olivia herself on the show, or the Bee Gees for example? Something to add some harmony and spice and give this a huge draw to the mass market. I look at that tracklist above and even for 1980, all I think is "old fashioned, standards". If that's what they were aiming for, Linda Ronstadt would have been perfect for Karen.

John Davidson was utterly forgettable on this show and it galls me to this day that he demanded a huge royalty when Richard asked for 'You're Just In Love' to be included in 'As Time Goes By'. Thank God Richard and Karen had recorded their own vocals for posterity after the show was in the can.
 
John Davidson was utterly forgettable on this show and it galls me to this day that he demanded a huge royalty when Richard asked for 'You're Just In Love' to be included in 'As Time Goes By'. Thank God Richard and Karen had recorded their own vocals for posterity after the show was in the can.

Amen and Amen.....
I guess we can be happy that Susanne wasn't there....:wink:
I wonder if Jerry Weintraub had a lot to do with how he wanted this special to go and guests that were to appear. Stephen that is a great point, the Bee Gees would have been a great choice or how about doing a whole 360 and having the Beach Boys? lol
 
This was their best tv special to date and the medley is what outshines the entire special for me. However, when you look at the track list above once again it seems the Carpenters were identifying with an older audience crowd, why is that, they were still young and hip yet having guests like Ella and John was not helping draw in that younger appeal. They already worked with John Davidson, did they really need to have him on again? I mean think of all the top 40 male and female stars they could have included and still kept that theme of Music, Music, Music...keeping Ella they could have had a big band sound throwback but also kept the top 40 feel so you draw in both types of audiences for a wider appeal.

As much as I love this special and I really do (nothing I can change at this point) were they still walking down that same road of appealing to the older audiences? Olivia had a tv special out at the same time, Hollywood Nights and brought guests that were current in today's music industry.
Tina Turner was a bit of a throw-back at that point in time.
 
I think this is where the MMM special missed a beat. Ok, so keep Ella for old-times-sake as one of their idols, but why didn't they have Olivia herself on the show, or the Bee Gees for example? Something to add some harmony and spice and give this a huge draw to the mass market. I look at that tracklist above and even for 1980, all I think is "old fashioned, standards". If that's what they were aiming for, Linda Ronstadt would have been perfect for Karen.

John Davidson was utterly forgettable on this show and it galls me to this day that he demanded a huge royalty when Richard asked for 'You're Just In Love' to be included in 'As Time Goes By'. Thank God Richard and Karen had recorded their own vocals for posterity after the show was in the can.

How'd you find out that nugget about Davidson. There must have been some sort of reciprocal thing with John, or they got him dirt cheap.
 
It's years since I heard the story (roadode springs to mind) but I held it up to be credible at the time after cross-referencing it with other sources. One quote I found was this:

"Richard was trying to put the special on DVD but for some reason John Davidson was the one giving him trouble. It seem he wanted some significant portion of the royalties. After that Richard gave up on the idea".
 
It's years since I heard the story (roadode springs to mind) but I held it up to be credible at the time after cross-referencing it with other sources. One quote I found was this:

"Richard was trying to put the special on DVD but for some reason John Davidson was the one giving him trouble. It seem he wanted some significant portion of the royalties. After that Richard gave up on the idea".
Well, I kind of believe it as John is a real has been, done that whatever. He's probably in need of some cash. Why he was famous in the first place, I don't know.
 
Wonder why the didn't give Sedaka a shot?

Funny!

My question is, since we know Karen and Richard recorded their own vocals to replace John and Ella on tracks like "You're Just In Love," "Without a Song," and "You'll Never Know," did Karen also record vocals for "Ain't Misbehavin'" and "How High the Moon"?
 
Funny!

My question is, since we know Karen and Richard recorded their own vocals to replace John and Ella on tracks like "You're Just In Love," "Without a Song," and "You'll Never Know," did Karen also record vocals for "Ain't Misbehavin'" and "How High the Moon"?

Funny how we always end up back on the danger zone (buried treasure)
The translation provided to us from Yuka on buried treasure says this:
RC:
"Ain't Misbehaving is Ella Fitzgerald"
"How High The Moon. Ella Fitzgerald."

It's sorta contradicting (and maybe this is the translation getting in the way) but later RC says this:

RC:
It's that. It's TV specials, appearances, it's outtakes, it's half completed
leads or it's songs we never should have recorded in the first place.
Wouldn't I like, if.... I mean obviously there's money to be made if I loved
all these pieces, I'd have them out already. The list is accurate, except
that doesn't mean anything. Hurting means nothing to me and one other one
doesn't ring a bell, but that doesn't mean anything. But All Good Things...
see, I think that got mixed up, cause it's definitely called All Good Things
Don't Have To End, and I think it ended up All Good Things I Remember. We
also did a track to The Moon's A Harsh Mistress.

Now Mr. J said in the buried treasure thread that
"The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress"-finished track (don't have Richard's comments on this track)"

So it sounds to me like Karen and Richard did record a track for The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress but not Ain't Misbehaving. Unless Richard is misbehaving and not telling us. :laugh: Sorry couldn't resist!!
 
So it sounds to me like Karen and Richard did record a track for The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress but not Ain't Misbehaving. Unless Richard is misbehaving and not telling us. :laugh: Sorry couldn't resist!!

Chris, "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" is a different song from "How High the Moon." "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" is a song written in the 1970s by Jimmy Webb, while "How High the Moon" is a jazz standard from the 1940s. We know Karen recorded a vocal for "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress," but I'm wondering if the two Ella Fitzgerald tracks from Music, Music, Music were recorded by Karen. I've never heard either way whether they were recorded or not.
 
Chris, "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" is a different song from "How High the Moon." "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" is a song written in the 1970s by Jimmy Webb, while "How High the Moon" is a jazz standard from the 1940s. We know Karen recorded a vocal for "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress," but I'm wondering if the two Ella Fitzgerald tracks from Music, Music, Music were recorded by Karen. I've never heard either way whether they were recorded or not.

I can't quite picture Karen singing 'How High The Moon', have you heard Ella in the special? She's like a crazy woman :laugh:
 
I can't quite picture Karen singing 'How High The Moon', have you heard Ella in the special? She's like a crazy woman :laugh:
Well, that crazy scatting was one of Ella's trademarks. She also did a remarkable Louis Armstrong impersonation! It does not mean Karen could not have found her own way with the tune. For another take, listen to Mary Ford and Les Paul.

And k & R did a bit of crazy themselves when they wanted to! Iced Tea? Girl From Ipanema? Cinderella Rockefeller?
Listen to that Bacharach medley again. Especially the full version.
I think Karen could have done a driving, rocking version of 'How High' too! Exciting even!
 
This was their best tv special to date and the medley is what outshines the entire special for me. However, when you look at the track list above once again it seems the Carpenters were identifying with an older audience crowd, why is that, they were still young and hip yet having guests like Ella and John was not helping draw in that younger appeal. They already worked with John Davidson, did they really need to have him on again? I mean think of all the top 40 male and female stars they could have included and still kept that theme of Music, Music, Music...keeping Ella they could have had a big band sound throwback but also kept the top 40 feel so you draw in both types of audiences for a wider appeal.

As much as I love this special and I really do (nothing I can change at this point) were they still walking down that same road of appealing to the older audiences? Olivia had a tv special out at the same time, Hollywood Nights and brought guests that were current in today's music industry.
The theme of Music Music Music was jazz and vintage standards-and it was only fitting that K&R invited Ella,a jazz icon with the largest recorded catalog of standards,to guest on the show. Having the current pop artists of the day as guests would have undermined the theme of the special altogether.
 
Funny!

My question is, since we know Karen and Richard recorded their own vocals to replace John and Ella on tracks like "You're Just In Love," "Without a Song," and "You'll Never Know," did Karen also record vocals for "Ain't Misbehavin'" and "How High the Moon"?
No- Karen didn't record "Ain't Misbehavin" and "How High The Moon". There was a time when I thought she might have cut versions of those two tracks-but I realize now that it never happened. If they did exist,Richard would've put them out years ago-probably on Voice Of The Heart,Lovelines or Interpretations.

There's no way Richard would let two jazz standards just sit in a vault.
 
I disagree, mr. J. It became almost a "must do" for popular artists to eventually record an album of standards. K&R could have led the way starting with modern era music guests singing them on the special.
 
I disagree, mr. J. It became almost a "must do" for popular artists to eventually record an album of standards. K&R could have led the way starting with modern era music guests singing them on the special.
Having a typical pop star like Olivia Newton-John on the special doing "How High The Moon" would've been a problem-she wouldn't have made it past the first verse.

Let's face it- Karen,Ella and Frank are in a league all by themselves.
 
No- Karen didn't record "Ain't Misbehavin" and "How High The Moon". There was a time when I thought she might have cut versions of those two tracks-but I realize now that it never happened. If they did exist,Richard would've put them out years ago-probably on Voice Of The Heart,Lovelines or Interpretations.

There's no way Richard would let two jazz standards just sit in a vault.

While I tend to agree that, had these been recorded by Karen, they probably would have seen the light of day by now, the possibility exists that they were recorded but Richard thinks they aren't worthy of release. Whether Karen's vocals just aren't all that great, the songs aren't "Carpenters" enough, or Richard just didn't like them, he's got other completed stuff sitting in the vault for these reasons.

Occam's Razor probably applies here, though. They haven't been released simply because Karen didn't record them.
 
Let's face it- Karen,Ella and Frank are in a league all by themselves.
Can't argue with that. I do think Karen was a bit stifled by "the formula" after a time. While I adore the Horizon album, with a little fun thrown in, i.e. Postman, I miss that early willingness to have more fun. I don't mean "Forget the formula". Just reach out and do more styles that were suited to Karen's voice. Passage surely proved she could sing any number of song styles. But after that it was back to the formula. I have no idea if that was K&R's idea, A&M's idea, or a consensus including fan input. But I think they got a little scared that their run was over and stopped taking chances. Karen's album shows she was willing to go yet another directions, but when they were back together, nothing really new. There are some gems in there, but I was waiting for more variety. Of course I and other fans had no idea the personal turmoil going on.

Don't you wish Karen had John Bettis' talent for lyrics? I can imagine some deeply emotional lyrics coming from her, ala Andrea Corr's Forgiven Not Forgotten: "A bleeding heart torn apart, and left on an icy grave". Chills.
 
But after that it was back to the formula. I have no idea if that was K&R's idea, A&M's idea, or a consensus including fan input.
I think the problem with A Kind of Hush was that they were playing it safe amid all their behind-the-scenes personal problems. Not just Karen with her anorexia nervosa, but I think Richard's Quaalude addiction was beginning to take its toll on his creative capabilities. So they resorted to formula, probably in the hope that if they could just stay alive on the charts, they'd be able to sort through all that ailed them. Instead, it was the beginning of the end, in terms of their reign on the pop charts. With Passage, they tried again. As much as I love that album, parts of it felt like they were trying too hard to be daring. Then, as was noted in the second John Bettis interview thread, with Made in America Jerry Moss pushed them to go back to the MOR-style staples that made up the bulk of their previous chart-toppers. Needless to say, that didn't work either. The world had moved on – well on – by that time. It was almost as if, in their never-ending search for the next hit, Richard and Karen had lost the link to their intuitive and creative sensibilities, the jazz-influenced energy that drove so much of their earlier work.
 
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