KC solo re-release (fan fantasy)

[WYBIMLA]

I've heard this idea tossed around by fans before, and wondered about your current thoughts and feelings on it. Is it something you'd like to see?
For the record, there are no plans for a re-issue of KC's solo album...it's just dreaming.

At this point, I don't think it would happen, but I wouldn't mind seeing it if it were done in a certain way (with a few bonus tracks not previously put out before or some remixes or something... different artwork).

Btw, I'm neither for or against KC's album. I've always wavered on the topic since I first heard it and the outtakes about eight years ago. If there was a re-release I'd likely buy it, and I think it might look something like this...

1. Lovelines ('89 remix)
2. All because of you
3. If I had you ('89 remix)
4. Making love in the Afternoon
5. If we try
6. Remember when lovin' took all night
7. Still in love with you
8. My body keep changing my mind (From the top remix)
9. Make believe its your first time (solo)
10. Guess I just lost my head
11. Still crazy after all these years (From the top remix)

On second thought, it'd probably be the original mixes, but I wouldn't be upset with a semi-remixed version of the album either. I'm not sure anyone would update it now, and if you already have remixes of some sort they might as well be put to use.

Bonus track:
Last one singing the blues (because of it's '96 release would likely be included)

I think the following tracks could have a chance at being bonus material in this scenario:

Something's missing
I do it for your love

I heard "Something missing" was talked about as a release at some point. Maybe I read that wrong. It is rather nice.

"I do it for your love" has a very catchy hook once it kicks in "Found a rug in a old junk shop...". Although, I could be wrong, and it allows Karen to linger a bit in her lower register.

Reason for excluding the rest, and why it's doubtful they would make it over others, imho...

Midnight- That audible mistake on the first chorus. This song's out unless that could be corrected somehow.
It's really you- Chorus has always sounded too high to me. If that was the general consensus against all of the material in the first place then this one wouldn't make it as a bonus.
Jimmy Mack- Exactly what KC was getting away from (oldies formula and complete association with the obvious). She truly loved those though didn't she?
Don't try to win me back again- I like it, but I'm pretty sure it's unfinished. The ending sounds dissonant too, but it's a lot of fun.
Lovelight- Nothing wrong with it per say. I like it. It's fun. I don't know if it'd be up for consideration with it's probable rival "Still in love..." and different feel from the rest of the album.
Love makin' love to you- Idk if the head person of a project like this would want to add more sexuality to Karen's legacy, but it does sound complete at least.
Truly you- Well, I'm not really into this punchy song. It's pretty innocent lyrically, but it doesn't do that much for me.

And of course because they're outtakes first and foremost. Never intended to be heard... unless Karen wanted to re-visit her solo work at some point, but we'll never know.

 

[newvillefan]

I heard "Something missing" was talked about as a release at some point. Maybe I read that wrong. It is rather nice.

I think Richard had intentions of finishing this song off for release on a future compilation album but it seems now from recent discussion here that he's officially done. It's such a shame that it slipped through the net. It would have been nice to have.

 

[Jeff]

the 2 completed unreleased should certainly be welcomed on rerelease plus Something s Missing. I think S.M. is the best of the incomplete recordings. Alas, at least they're available for a self compilation.

 

[WYBIMLA]

Maybe that's just it... it's how I have one of my playlists atm. Lol That may be all it'll ever be along with my expanded "MIA" (Made in America) playlist.

 

[Charlie D]

What are the major differences between the original mix of "Still Crazy..." and Richard's? It's been a while since I've heard his.

I really hope he does release "Something's Missing", and who knows, maybe it's already done and he's just waiting to talk about it. He could do great things to it and tone down the 80s aspect of it and give it a rich atmosphere, much like he did with her other solo songs.

I actually like Midnight quite a bit, and somehow the 80s sounding arrangement actually helps it. I'm not against 80s pop but so much of it now sounds so trite.

I honestly wonder why Something's Missing and Love Makin Love to You didn't make the album, they both should have replaced Still In Love With You and Lovelines easily.

 

[newvillefan]

What are the major differences between the original mix of "Still Crazy..." and Richard's? It's been a while since I've heard his.

There aren't any to my ears, I've listened to both of them over and over and I can't hear any differences to speak of. Same goes for Remember When Lovin' Took All Night.

I honestly wonder why Something's Missing and Love Makin Love to You didn't make the album, they both should have replaced Still In Love With You and Lovelines easily.

You've hit the nail on the head there. I'd have included Love Makin Love To You on the album and it's clearly a finished track. Maybe they thought it was just too in your face and explicit for Karen's style.

 

[WYBIMLA]

I suppose it's not that audible. Perhaps more in the quality somehow. Funny I can hardly explain it... that can be the case with other remixes too.
I found the biggest difference in the remix for "Still crazy after all these years" was Richard brought up certain details of the song.
Like when Karen does the "I am going, I am going, I am going crazy..." he brought up the "I'm going"...in Karen's version it's a bit quiet.
I never even heard the "I'm going..." part until I found the remix actually.

And my thoughts exactly on "Love making love to you" on why "they" wouldn't put it out... Don't get me wrong... I personally don't have anything wrong with some explicit material. From the persecutive of "they" though... probably looking back on their career now it just wouldn't seem appropriate.

I always found "Love makin' love to you" was overtly sexual. Maybe it was Karen who wanted to dial it back a bit. Maybe didn't want to push too much. There's already "Making love in the afternoon", "Remember when lovin' took all night", and other suggestive material.
I think it was after "Stay the night" backing vocal part where she let's out a questionable "ooh". Stuff like that wouldn't make the cut. Not now.

But, I totally agree "Something missing" is something quite good. It is a dirty ol'shame that it fell through like that. I like "Last one singing the blues", but darn "Something's missing" is great stuff the way Karen builds up her voice till the end like she did. It had a chance at least.

And for "If we try" and "Remember when lovin'..." yeah on the "Lovelines" album I don't think there was anything done to those two tracks save for remixes on "If I had you" and the title track.

 

[newvillefan]

And for "If we try" and "Remember when lovin'..." yeah on the "Lovelines" album I don't think there was anything done to those two tracks

That's actually not the case - the liner notes for the Lovelines album mention the following:

Selections 4 & 7 Remixed by Phil Ramone and Jim Boyer in M.E.S.M.
Selections 1 & 11 Remixed by Robert De La Garza

So all four solo tracks did receive a remix, but on the two you mention, the difference is inaudible to me.

 

[WYBIMLA]

Hmm I didn't know that. It's inaudible to me as well. Hence my assumption.

 

[WYBIMLA]

"Something missing" might be the one... if there were to be surprises.
My other hunch... well I don't even know what the quality/current state of the songs would be... if it has a full lead and so on...
In perspective, it's a wonder we ever got something like "Do you hear what I hear" with the shape that it was in. It was very nice of Rich to consider the material he did. Who knows... maybe it's true there's really "nothing left" and the other songs we think exists "weren't for them".

I would tend to agree that the solo album... it does have some really good moments. There are it's shining moments, but when the two Carpenters are together in song that's the best.
I don't know how Karen's solo aspirations would have worked on the side like how she was thinking. I never got what she meant by that. I can see a few things working (movies), but keeping a side solo singing career in addition to working with another band... Idk...
If I was in a parallel universe that could let me know... I'd love to know how all the promotion and everything would work out in that case.

I agree some of the material is keyed too high for Karen, but we can't forget Richard had her using her upper register at times too. Not as much, but still.
And upon listening to "Jimmy Mack" the other day it is rather silly, a bit strained, and probably not what she was going for at all. Perhaps even sounds "young". Little to no connection like we've found in "the basement". Sounds like a fun tune, but I can see why it was left out like a lot of these and it just wasn't a finished track. It could be very true that Karen would be mortified knowing these things had leaked. It's still good... I mean, we're talking about one of the greatest singers who ever lived here, but from what we know she's capable of it doesn't quite make the cut. Doesn't satisfy the listener somehow.

It's a controversial thing within fan circles I've found as the years go on, and I don't mean to stir the pot. I used to love the KC solo project a lot, but I suppose after the initial excitement it doesn't give you that same richness. It's just the idea of more Karen Carpenter songs out there that's so appealing. And she was here for a short amount of time, so we want to give her that appreciation as an artist. Gravitating towards the things she had a chance to get at.

Like I said I would most likely purchase a re-release for support and to add to my collection, but I can't sit here and be fully in love with everything about it. Especially with how I see things now. It just doesn't get as much play as her previous work when I'm going through songs on my iTunes. I'm not sure if it ever really did for me. Every now and then. Maybe my assessment/criticism of the album is wrong. Heck there's people who would really disagree with saying anything wrong about "Karen Carpenter" solo album.
Considering the shelving though and what Rich and all the guys had been saying ever since... there was that whole thing with the album where you ended up with Karen sounding as if she's trying to sound like everyone else at the time. I agree that it was not the best it wanted to be...
Kudos to everyone who worked on it, but yea...

I know what it meant to Karen. We all know, but she was also not in a great state of mind. I think it's easily forget because who wants to think about that? The shelving was very sad. I can't deny. It must have been devastating for her, and she did very much enjoy her solo project. Yet, it just didn't seem to make complete sense for how it turned out. It was eclectic enough that I think it just went over everybody's head. At the time, no one quite "got it", and why this wonderful voice was doing the things it was doing on that record?
All that had potential to play into how "let's go back to Carpenters cause it's easier" sounded... then of course there's criticism about that whole venture afterwards...

You know, I think if there had been at least one more completed album...one that wasn't "Voice of the heart" as we know it...
Then maybe we could see just how good it was going to get. For all we know they had many more hits in them. I'm sure along with getting started on "Now" I believe things would have gotten better career wise had things played out so that day in '83 was only a huge wake up call. I really strongly wish for that...
As Richard said he thinks about all the songs they could have made together. They were far from finished. Maybe wanted to do things different and slow it down, but so much of life ahead. *sigh* sorry for the downer I was thinking a lot of this stuff today.

 

[Jeff]

Karen was a woman of 29 n 30 at solo outing. some lyrics here n there provocative were age appropriate where Crystal Lullaby was full of flavor and perfect for a younger woman of 22 to explore. I think or is it apparent to all that Karen had blossomed from a 16 year old girl and YOU'LL LOVE ME and on to a melody featuring a little oft sung about intimate nature. Even as I and perhaps yall traditionally think of Karen as the girl next door she certainly had not evolved into a song slut. Admittedly, I would've applauded a little bit of Karen debuting PHYSICAL yknow as in "let's get Physical". after all her Barbies days were long gone. unlike me where the Ken doll memories are still vivid haha.

 

[WYBIMLA]

Thanks. Sometimes I worry if I type too much.
I have no other outlet for my Carpenters fandom.
I'm not on Facebook as much as I used to be (There's few groups that are okay...overall I'm not crazy about it. I liked those groups for a minute, but I... don't get around much anymore).
I'm not asked that much in day-to-day interactions about Carpenters; although my family and friends know I'm nuts about them.
It's quite a relief to have a place like AM Corner where I can express this stuff and you're all such nice people, btw. Nicer than some of the MJ fans had been towards me. As you can tell I have thoughts, questions, and opinions still after all this time. It's going on ten years of these message boards (Starting on a site called "Lead sister" back in 2007, but I think that's a different site now). I find there's still variation on the same issues/topics to discuss.
I'm one of those that listens to Carpenters nearly daily. There's bound to be at least one song I'll hear of theirs, and I like to participate in discussion where I can. They have been a part of my life through their music.

"Thank you for the music", as I recall, was one where for the first time Richard said 'you know what, the original artist actually did the definitive version of it and we don't need to copy". I think at a certain point he was thinking a bit differently about what he wanted to put out. That whole supposed 10 year anniversary album would have been really interesting had it materialized. Maybe in the moment he would have put it out without thinking too much, but as time goes on he can sit and think about the legacy. Maybe he's overthought it...

If I were in charge you'd see more demos, alternative takes and things like that, yet I don't know what it's like to be in his shoes.
I wouldn't think Carpenters version of that would be 'bad'. Probably better in comparison to "Breaking up is hard to do" and "Man Smart, Woman Smarter". Lol I know I'd buy it, and if there was a charity component to it I mean people would be more than happy to purchase it for a higher price. That would be nice. We'll take nearly anything at this point won't we?

And yeah maybe another producer could have been better for the solo project... but yet I'm not sure there was anyone much better than Phil Ramone.
I agree with the notion that for a moment in time Karen wanted acknowledgement for her singing and not just as part of a duo.
I think we forget and maybe Karen forgot for that moment how much she really appreciated and was a fan of Richard. Maybe she would realize and maybe did realize that she could still get acknowledgement in a way that made more sense for everybody. This whole thing may have been simply been wanting recognition, and being free to do things that sounded 'happier' to her. It's just too bad it didn't work out the way it was intended.
I absolutely think Richard could have been able to accommodate Karen for her ideas of recording. Rich had always accepted whenever she had ideas from what I know... It wasn't so one sided of the material they got to sing. Am I wrong? (Sweet, sweet smile and Goofus were a Karen contribution) Thing was she wasn't a writer and often didn't seem to want to have a say in that side of things. I guess she did more than was previously thought.
Obviously, Richard wouldn't want to do disco like she had in mind. But, it Karen wanted more say I don't think Richard would have taken much issue with that. And I understand she wanted to keep working while Richard was unable but... I guess it was easier for her to just keep working once things had gotten heavy (leaving her bother at Mennigers)...

When you hear "Back in my life again" Richard was capable of doing something upbeat no doubt. Karen liked that kind of thing a lot and was something better suited for them, imo. Hey, I like upbeat Karen too. That side of her is a lot of fun to listen to.

I think something like "Make believe its your first time" can show that Richard wasn't against her choices and even liked some of it (maybe not the best example, but still). If he completely hated that album I don't think he'd have chosen to work on that song.

I'm not sure moving forward in their career would have been so "same old same old". When you listen to "Time" you hear some of those synths and you know Richard wasn't so far removed from what was going on at the time. They both would be more in tune, matured/updated but maybe still never "trendy".
It's confusing because I recall Karen talking about "there's enough room for everybody" in the music world, but somewhere along the line she didn't want to be associated with the easy listening sound as much anymore. She wanted to join in on what ONJ or whoever else was doing.

Anyway, MIA was it's own thing, moving on things would be different. I like to think. They were just getting started back up again. My goodness if only Karen could have gotten to sing "Something in your eyes"... you'd have some upbeat ones too I bet on whatever that ill fated '83 album was actually supposed to be.

As time would go by this would have all made more sense. The solo thing was a great experience for Karen and maybe as time went on she would feel better about her position in the music world and yes do some things separately. Once the two of them had their health and personal lives stabilized things would have been "going into the 80s like they went into the 70s". That's what I believe. They had good momentum going it was bound to get real good again.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Of course we'll never know what would have happened if they'd continued, and of course there have been many instances of artists having a "second" round of hits after their initial heyday -- but MOST artists have their peak and then they are forever relegated to whatever decade their hits happened in. The way music trended in the 80s, I am quite confident that there never would have been another round of major Carpenters hits -- UNLESS they embraced Country music, the way Dan Seals and several others did -- they could have made a real splash in that arena, I think.

 

[GaryAlan]

Country Music would have been great !
Here's Karen Carpenter (1978 Interview, Schmidt Reader page 229):
"We wanted to cut something else Country. We discussed it with the Company. They said that would be terrific,
then, all of a sudden everybody leaned on us for a Country Album, at which point Jerry Moss almost lost his hair."

(NB. I wonder, then, how much hair Jerry Moss lost when Phil and Karen delivered her solo work.)

 

[WYBIMLA]

The Country album and the unnamed '83 album goes along with the fan fantasy idea. Your right these are things we'll never know.
Maybe they had their peak... I like to think they'd have their 80s hit(s), 90s hit(s), and early 2000s hit(s)...and in later years they would still wow us at awards shows and various rare things. But, possibly not too...
As for a country album... I mean yea they did some country songs, but still in a pop/soft rock way.
I don't see them going totally country. Man, somehow the label would still manage to mess up their image and album artwork... I can see it now with them standing smiling with cowboy hats on. Jk
I feel like Richard's solo work is a bit of a guide to see how things would have gone.
I think you'd see more power ballads and some upbeat pop tunes.

Anyways, how about that solo album... Lol
I know it's probably very doubtful we'll see a re-release of that.
But, I think we've determined that "Something's missing" at least had a chance for release at one point.

 

[mr J.]

I think Richard had intentions of finishing this song off for release on a future compilation album but it seems now from recent discussion here that he's officially done. It's such a shame that it slipped through the net. It would have been nice to have.

Richard was thinking about finishing "Something's Missing" twenty years ago(in the mid-90's)-but evidently wasn't able to get clearance from A&M at the time.

Once the solo album outtakes were leaked onto the Internet around 2000-I believe Richard changed his mind about the possibility of ever releasing that track.

 

[mr J.]

UNLESS they embraced Country music, the way Dan Seals and several others did -- they could have made a real splash in that arena, I think

K&R would've never had a chance in Country music-they wouldn't have been accepted by Nashville or the Country Music scene.They started out as Jazz musicians who became famous as easy-listening pop artists. They had absolutely no roots or ties to Nashville/Country music.

Karen's type of voice & Richard's type of production & arranging style lend themselves well to lush orchestrations with plenty of brass,woodwinds & percussion.

 

[GaryAlan]

For some historical perspective:
The Nashville Songwriters Inductee Biography states that John Bettis was in (half-time) residency in
Nashville beginning 1971.
1974 is the year Joe Osborn made a permanent move to Nashville.
I must ask: If those two individuals, associated with Carpenters, were accepted into the Capital of Country Music,
then why would there be resistance to the acceptance of Karen and Richard Carpenter ?
(After all, August 1978 saw the Country Music Magazine interview by Nancy Naglin)
A part of the persistent "image" problem centers precisely around the public's association of the duo as primarily an
Easy Listening music act. It does not hurt to get more exposure in different Markets.
Starting with songs such as "And When I Die" up to " Sweet, Sweet Smile" (and, beyond) it is clear that Karen Carpenter could conquer
any musical genre. If Richard chose not to arrange/produce for a country song, then another should have been hired to do so.
(I am of the opinion that) had "Those Good Old Dreams" been arranged more Country (than it already was),
it would have made a bigger dent on the Charts. (Also, drop the 'Old' in the song and replace it with 'Ole' ").
Country Music at that time--as Juice Newton exclaims--was more Pop than Country.
Wasn't (Chart Peak Pop#68 ) "I Believe You" met with quite a bit of radio resistance?
And, that song is arranged precisely in the " lush orchestrations with plenty of brass, woodwinds and percussion".

 

[tomswift2002]

I was just listening to the unreleased tracks and I really think "I Do It For Your Love" should've been included on a Carpenters album, since it is really hard to call it a song about sex. It's more about what young, just married lovers go through.

But overall, I've found the other songs to have been really well done, and it's to bad that Richard, after releasing the solo album in 1996, didn't mix another album up, as he still had 10 tracks that he could've used.

 

[Mark-T]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad KC didn't put "Jimmy Mack" on her solo album. (The newer thread of oldies remade and Goofus/Beechwood got me thinking.) BUT if she had to include an oldie, couldn't you hear her singing something sassy and jazzy like "Am I the Same Girl?"
Swing Out Sister did a terrific remake of this, and I thought Karen would have nailed it.

 

[CraigGA]

There is only one thing that saddens me about Richard being "done": with Karen no longer with us, we only have Richard left to complete some gems. Without him, they all die with him, for anyone else editing them would not feel the same without Richard. I feel anything left would be great for release while Richard is still around to put the Carpenters touch on them. With a B-Sides and Rarities feel changed to Shelved Now Uncovered would make a great package and maybe even a thank you to the writers of the songs, with an attached booklet with thoughts from those who either wrote them or who first made them famous, or thoughts from the musicians used while recording them. I think it would be great way to gift wrap what is left.

 

[WYBIMLA]

It's possible he completed others already, but they have not been released...
I mean it wouldn't surprise me if there may have been extra material from the posthumous albums/box sets.

If it didn't make the cut then it's not up to standard... I think part of his criteria is that he had to be wild about the song and Karen too.
There was plenty of opportunity during VOTH, Lovelines, ATGB. We have gems already (rare remixed albums, etc).

I'd like to hear more demos/outtakes/studio chatter/anything... too! But, I can see it from his view as well. We're lucky to have what we do have.

There's probably a handful of these so called lost treasures...
A lot of these titles have been released by other artists you can listen to, and in another thread we had discussed how they were a bit of a "snore fest".
Obviously, didn't gel with Richard.
Not so say Karen wouldn't sound great singing the material, but all the great, great stuff we know and love can't compare to the bits and pieces left in the "vault" somewhere we dream about hearing.

 

[WYBIMLA]

I sure hope there's a bonus track for the 50th anniversary.

We have Karen's very last performance done in one take.
I'd like to hear a stripped version of "Now".
Maybe that could be a single release in 3 years time.

I just thought so much of the posthumous material was from late 70s-very early 80s.
Those were tumultuous times for both of them.

I've heard years of criticism from fans about the production and Karen's 'thinning voice' from those recordings.

I'd like to hear a convincing... or something decisive from the fan base as to what they'd really want... if they'd even be satisfied with that...
Something tells me I am not always sure we are 100% happy with everything... it's a dirty Ol' shame.

With the way business has changed since the heyday of Carpenters... and even Richard hearing complaints throughout all the years then it would be really special for him to put out anything 'new'.

 

[John P Noel]

Hi there everybody...Can anyone explain to me the differences that make "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" so much different (and much improved, in my humble opinion) from the "Karen Carpenter" album and the "From the Top" boxed set? Not being a experienced musician I always wanted to know what the "remix" process was for this particular song. I always thought it was so funny that I enjoyed Richard's remix of this song compared to the original solo version especially given the fact that he gave Karen the edict to "not do any disco" for her solo project. Any input would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

[newvillefan]

Hi there everybody...Can anyone explain to me the differences that make "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" so much different (and much improved, in my humble opinion) from the "Karen Carpenter" album and the "From the Top" boxed set? Not being a experienced musician I always wanted to know what the "remix" process was for this particular song. I always thought it was so funny that I enjoyed Richard's remix of this song compared to the original solo version especially given the fact that he gave Karen the edict to "not do any disco" for her solo project. Any input would be appreciated! Thanks!

Mainly Richard added reverb to the drum track as well as Karen's lead vocal to give the song more "ambiance". Other instruments such as the rhythm guitars in the verses sound like they've been tweaked as well to balance them better in the overall mix.