Christmas Portrait 14 million sales. Is this accurate?*

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adam

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Hi
Just been reading bio on Carpenters official website and it mentions Christmas portrait has sold 14 million copies over the years.I know it sold over 2 million copies in the USA by 1994 as stated in ray coleman biography .If this is the case this would make Christmas portrait their best selling studio album but this Album only charted in USA.I thought their best selling studio album was close to you and Carpenter tan album.Thoughts anyone
 
Welcome, Adam,
In regards to Christmas Portrait:
Coleman, indeed ,says over two million copies sold (as of 1994)
and soundscan sales of 1,895,000 (USA sales from March 1991 through December 2012).
Other than those sales figures, I do not know how worldwide sales are tallied.
Richard Carpenter:
"I did oversee the mixes, of course, but that falls under production."
"The label hadn’t been keen on the idea of a Carpenters Christmas album in the first place."
"You had A&M’s initial resistance to the idea and then they saw what we were spending,so I can understand their concern,”
(All quotes from Official webpage RichardandKarenCarpenter)
 
adam said:
Hi
Just been reading bio on Carpenters official website and it mentions Christmas portrait has sold 14 million copies over the years.I know it sold over 2 million copies in the USA by 1994 as stated in ray coleman biography .If this is the case this would make Christmas portrait their best selling studio album but this Album only charted in USA.I thought their best selling studio album was close to you and Carpenter tan album.Thoughts anyone
Click to expand...
The 14 million figure is worldwide sales-US sales are about 3 million.

Close To You is the best selling studio album after Christmas Portrait and Christmas Collection.

Carpenters was the best-selling studio album during the 1970's.

An album doesn't have to chart in order to sell a significant number of copies.An album can rack up millions in cumulative sales without ever charting.
 
Karen told us they'd shifted more that 30 million in late '78 in the CHIPS advert. So they've sold more than 3 times that since. . .wow.
 
Ah, the vexed issue of sales again!

Personally I'd be amazed if Christmas Portrait had shifted even close to half of the quoted figure of 14 million copies worldwide. The US is by far the biggest market globally for holiday albums - they tend to sell poorly or certainly far more modestly by comparison with the US in markets like Europe and Australia. That only leaves the Far East as the other big market. I don't know how holiday albums do there, but if the US sales figure of 3 million for Christmas Portrait is roughly accurate, then that leaves a massive amount for it to have sold elsewhere in markets where such albums traditionally don't sell well. It certainly never sold well here in the UK for instance. I'd guess at it only shifting another million worldwide max, giving 4 million as a far more likely figure.

I wonder what the best-selling studio album worldwide is though? In the UK, Now & Then and Horizon were the two biggest sellers, but I don't know about elsewhere.
 
Wasn't Christmas Portrait not originally released in the UK, which shows they didn't think it would sell so well.
 
I was not able to locate a chart listing for Christmas Portrait in the UK.
Fan Club Newsletter does not include a UK release for the album, just the USA.
I had always assumed that Karen went over to do the Bruce Forsyth Program (airing Christmas Eve)
simply to promote Singles 1974-1978 Album (which went to #4 while she was in Britain):
12/02/1978
THE SINGLES 1974-1978,
CARPENTERS (A&M AMLT 19748)
#2


27 Weeks
 
Christmas Portrait was released in the UK in 1978 (I recently found an original UK LP copy in a secondhand shop) at the same time as The Singles 1974-1978 compilation, but wasn't given much push aside from Karen performing some Christmas songs when she appeared on the Bruce Forsyth show. A&M were obviously focusing on promoting the Singles album at the time as the better commercial bet in the run-up to Christmas - Ray Coleman's biography mentions that Karen was baffled that she wasn't asked to help promote it during her UK visit without Richard.

As GaryAlan says, the Singles album went all the way to #2 while Christmas Portrait failed to chart. It then went out of print for most of the 1980s until the Special Edition version was released on CD in 1990. An Old Fashioned Christmas also got a UK release in 1984 but again wasn't promoted and didn't chart. As there weren't many copies in circulation, original UK copies of both Christmas albums were quite hard to find for many years.
 


Karen soloing on Bruce.... She had a red-letter day on that broadcast. I love her I Need To Be In Love - and this version is my second favorite, right after the original 1970 recording.

Not a very June 24th post - but a beautiful performance, none-the-less!
 
triple-self-portrait1.jpg
...the inspiration for Christmas Portrait cover.
 
BarryT60 said:


Karen soloing on Bruce.... She had a red-letter day on that broadcast. I love her I Need To Be In Love - and this version is my second favorite, right after the original 1970 recording.

Not a very June 24th post - but a beautiful performance, none-the-less!
Click to expand...


Thanks for posting this clip, BarryT60. It reminds me of something that's irritating to distraction (for me) when I see performance clips from this era: Karen’s delivery. In the early part of the decade, when she delivered a heartbreaking lyric, her performance echoed the tenor of the song. Sad lyrics equaled downcast facial expression, gloomy body mannerisms, etc. It felt genuine and appropriate for the song.

In the latter part of the decade, like in the Forsythe clip, above, and the Tonight Show clip, below, her delivery (i.e., facial and physical mannerisms) seem a bit “showy” and smiley-smiley, almost like she’s trying to be ironic or trying to convey, “don’t worry audience, I’m not really sad like the songs say, wink!” For instance, in the clip below, watch how she sings “...but you’re not really here” or “...and all I know of love is how to live without it; I just can’t seem to find it.” Ugh. And the finger-pointing and exaggerated shoulder shrugging. Is it just me?

 
I think she probably got a little bored with singing it and reacting to the music the same old way is what happened. I think she was just trying to mix it up a bit. I've noticed that myself before on the Tonight Show clip in the past, but it wasn't something that she did often. And, of course, she would SOUND amazing if she'd been standing on her head!
 
In the latter part of the decade said:
really[/I] sad like the songs say, wink!” For instance, in the clip below, watch how she sings “...but you’re not really here” or “...and all I know of love is how to live without it; I just can’t seem to find it.” Ugh. And the finger-pointing and exaggerated shoulder shrugging. Is it just me?
Click to expand...

No, it isn't just you. ::sigh:: I always thought that part of their image problem was that Karen didn't know what to do when she sang. Early on, she was stiff. Later on, perhaps to correct the stiffness, she got overly 'cute'. If you watch other singers (Andrea and Sharon Corr come to mind - see the Other Female Singers thread), it seems to come so naturally to them. It must not have come naturally to Karen. The exception would be the Australian videos of Karen and Doug. She seemed so happy and natural in those, and she was quite young. And the television special spots are very good also.
 
I think her "showyness" was at it's worst in '81. Just watched her clips from Paris shows where she mimes to Beechwood and Top of the World. She's practically jumping off the stage, though I guess this has a lot to do with her nervous energy at the time, plus the thyroid medication that was speeding her metabolism in late '81.
 
Ullalume, definitely, you have made an important point.
I feel very uncomfortable watching the later Karen Carpenter clips.

In the Joan Lunden interview, the Sue Lawley interview, in the Paris "Top of the World" Performance,
and the Merv Griffin Interview, it is painfully obvious that there is something amiss.

It really does break my heart to watch some of the later material, and therefore I concentrate on the earlier
performances.

Karen really was a beautiful woman, just wish she had thought the same.
 
I agree with you above...it is really hard to watch especially with all the info we know about it now.
However I still wish more (later) video footage would surface. I try to look past how she looked on the outside and see the Karen inside, she is still there it's deep inside, her laughs, her quirkiness, acting funny yet still being a professional singer. Those are the moments that make me smile & laugh and see what a great person she was not only as a singer but as an individual. I will never forget growing up listening to her voice on records and saying to myself (long before the internet) wow I love her voice so much....can I get a record of her just talking? lol That is why I love all the audio interviews they did, hearing "that" voice talking and laughing....just cool stuff to me.
 
Chris-An Ordinary Fool said:
I will never forget growing up listening to her voice on records and saying to myself (long before the internet) wow I love her voice so much....can I get a record of her just talking? lol That is why I love all the audio interviews they did, hearing "that" voice talking and laughing....just cool stuff to me.
Click to expand...

I remember exactly the same thing Chris! The first time I ever got to hear her speaking voice was in 1993, when BBC Radio 2 broadcast the two-hour tribute on the 10th anniversary of her passing. I remember the host previewing little snippets of who we'd hear from in the next two hours and heard a female voice speaking that I thought was some guest or other. Once the special got going with more archive interview clips, I realised it was actually Karen I'd been listening to. I didn't even recognise her voice. She had such a lilting, light speaking voice that was nothing compared to the deep, resonant sound I had heard on songs like 'Superstar' and 'Yesterday Once More'.
 
ANTHOLOGY has a speaking intro to the B/D Medley. Singing so unlike speaking. PALLADIUM chatter, VOTH's 'gotta get in a serious mood', Let Me Be The One's FROM THE TOP's release. Stage and tv shows. I've never been able to sync the two. Gives more well-rounded feel of a person. I wonder if my select 'baby babies' sound relates to my speaking voice?
 
GaryAlan said:
Ullalume, definitely, you have made an important point.
I feel very uncomfortable watching the later Karen Carpenter clips.

In the Joan Lunden interview, the Sue Lawley interview, in the Paris "Top of the World" Performance,
and the Merv Griffin Interview, it is painfully obvious that there is something amiss.

It really does break my heart to watch some of the later material, and therefore I concentrate on the earlier
performances.

Karen really was a beautiful woman, just wish she had thought the same.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmmm ------ I know what you guys mean - but I might have a slightly different take on the Bruce Forsythe show and the Tonight Show clip above... I actually always liked how Karen seemed so lovely on lead, particularly, the way she held her hands... As for Bruce's broadcast. she delivers what I have come to believe was her best rendition of I Need To Be In Love, and I really like the whole Merry Christmas Darling Performance... not just the vocals.... For sure there are a couple shoulder shrugs here and there - but by in large, I think the whole thing shows her control, her talent, and her ability to knock our socks off all by her lonesome.

That said - I am not in love with a version of Top Of The World I see so many times - with the Live at the Palladium dress on... Seems a little Donny and Marie for my taste. There's another I Need To Be In Love with a white split skirt - that I think is not great, especially compared with the Forsythe version... Just not as sincere of a reading - or as "authentic" a take.

I am certain we analyze these clips - because there are so few.. and will never be any more. Had she been able to grow and mature - as we all have - I'm guessing her performances might have as well...& newer ones would have trumped these vintage versions...

Further, thinking about her mentality at the time of some of these clips, it seems that I remember reading that her friend Frenda might have had more influence on her clothing and her mannerisms at that time... There was a marked change in her demeanor on stage, and between that awful turn with Ken and Mitzi Welch, ( I wasn't a fan of all the "showy stuff" that was incorporated in their stage show at that particular time-frame), and some other outside influences, it seems we may have been seeing less of Karen and more of what she thought people were looking for...

That's why I think the Forsythe performances were a little more organic. It was just her with her band-mates. I also liked the small snippets of action we see on the ONJ special...

Then later - - by the time all that very late stuff was recorded, specifically anything MIA and afterward, she was like a thistle in the wind, and I don't think we really see an authentic individual out there - rather a spirit trying to find her way "out of" the spotlight - dodging weight questions and "what have you been doing?" questions... - - When as we all know now, there was a half million bucks and a year's worth of a solo album sitting on a shelf someplace that she "couldn't" discuss and a marriage that was crumbling at her feet - that was also way to taboo for the a Carpenter to be facing.

Finally, when these things were actually being completed, I don't think anyone - any one - could have imagined a day when we'd have the ability to, literally, on a whim, be able to watch these clips! That live telethon piece, for instance, is not a favorite of mine.. but I doubt anyone ever thought that clip would see the light of day - ever.... Now - at least performers have the knowledge that even a walk to Starbucks may make it on the world wide web - so you'd best be on good behavior and looking "right" on every angle... with just the right attitude... blah blah blah...

I'm rambling again. There should be a character count limit to my comments here... :) So long for now...
 
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