CarpenterS Fan Club BURIED TREASURE topic

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jeff

Well-Known Member
After the Downey Fan Club disbanded, Richard Carpenter and crew sanctioned this CarpenterS International Fan Club based out of Knoxville, Tennessee. This fan club reported some things that hitherto had been swept under the rug or glossed over as it were.
I've always wanted tried and true info regarding Carpenter(S) recording career. Much information here has been addressed by various sources. Work leads, unfinished this-n-that's and so on. Some here claim authority as tho the vault key resided on their personal keychain. That being said I would like to re-open this mystery and subject it to further scrutiny. There will be those that chant RC has said on numerous occasions blah and blah and blah blah and so forth. Others will argue pointlessness. The mere questions beg answers. My quest is to unveil that which someone (in the know) knows. Fascinating titles and recording dates. There's a lot to peruse and speculate leaving some sort of enchantment. Click below and see whatcha think.

Fan Club Newsletter: August 1992 - Buried Treasure (.pdf)

Jeff
 
Yeah, this newsletter looks familiar. Always good to see that list compiled in one place. There's so much stuff there, it's mind-boggling! I know it's been discussed previously, but I do know that a few of these tracks only feature one verse of the song, and not the whole thing. But there are others (like 'All My Life', 'Why Don't They Understand' and 'Try To Win A Friend") that were indeed completed. Richard himself stated that much about those three titles.

Lastly, Richard mentioned another completed track was the Neil Young song, 'I Believe In You', which he adamantely stated would never come out because "It's not Carpenters!" The most painful part about that story is that song was recorded during the 'Tan' Album sessions! How amazing would that be to hear? Karen at age 20/21 singing a Neil Young track in a different style? Wow.
 
Last edited:
Umhmm! Now that's what I'm talking bout! So digging deeper where are they? Why locked up? Can Universal turn the key? With shadowy reference conjuring an earlier blurb...NO and NO, I'm not asking for that studio D fart captured from the Horizon sessions. Just formal individual clarity on the whoseits and whatsits of trax listed. Not looking to create militant campaign but a rather decisive text. For instance what and where did RC confirm the three above completed trax and so on... I wanna go Ms. Marple on stuff like that there.

Jeff
 
Does anyone remember a quote from Richard - this year - saying, "It's all gone?" To refresh your memory, there was a massive fire at Universal that destroyed a lot of stuff, and it's come out that the original masters that Richard used for the SINGLES SACD mixes were still sitting around instead of having been shipped back to Iron Mountain in Pennsylvania. There is reason to believe that when Richard requested the tapes be sent to Hollywood, he meant and got "all."

So while it's all well and good to reminisce and drool over old lists of what might've been, the fact is that here, now, today - we don't know what's left.

Harry
 
Here's 'I Believe In You'. Holy Crap, I would LOVE to hear the K.C. version, as we all would!



The information above came from an interview Richard did with Yuko of 'Mook' book fame. Unfortunately, she LOST part of it, and only was able to reproduce some of the conversation. Painful, I know. I don't know how my brain retains all this stuff, but when it comes to Carpenters or Beatles, it sticks around! :wink:
 
Yeah, it's possible these tracks went up in smoke, but I can't fathom they didn't have at least some kind of backup in stereo. Think of Karen's solo tracks that surfaced prior to the album coming out. There are undoubtedly dubs of everything. Richard was referring to the multi-tracks being lost....not everything. Heck, we'd take it in compressed mono! Or on 78 RPM. :)
 
At long last put those crrrrraazy puzzle pieces together. Our overall input should achieve some daylight. While not clamoring for release of said items, 'drooling ' over the what was can be insightful. Whether or not it's viable isn't my topics charge. Defer to completing puzzle as this site does prominently feature CarpenterS the complete recording resource. To justify complete recordings implies all studio output. Seriousness aside, let's get together and see what can be accurately compiled.
I cannot translate Japanese nor do I have The Mook still I wonder what lies tween its pages.

Jeff
 
Not to sway the topic too much but speaking of The Mook put together by Yuko Ogura and Richard Carpenter. I know this is a really old video from when Richard attended the 1999 Carpenters convention but at the end of this video is a clip of Yuko. I know she had her website active for a long time and sold so many Carpenters items but her site I believe went down. I never knew who she looked like until I saw this video. I have The Mook and it's nice to see a face to who put this lovely collection book of Carpenters history, collectibles and photos together. The Mook was the first time I had ever seen this "list of Buried Treasure" printed.

Yuko appears at about 7:30 time

 
I wrote A&M soon after newsletter publication. Old fashioned hand writing pleading for release of all songs painstakingly transcribed. No response nor did I honestly expect one. I can't be the only fan-addict clamoring for definitive recording catalog. Satisfying the best of curiosity if nothing else.Baffled by the shroud of mystery.

Jeff
 
Not to sway the topic too much but speaking of The Mook put together by Yuko Ogura and Richard Carpenter. I know this is a really old video from when Richard attended the 1999 Carpenters convention but at the end of this video is a clip of Yuko. I know she had her website active for a long time and sold so many Carpenters items but her site I believe went down. I never knew who she looked like until I saw this video. I have The Mook and it's nice to see a face to who put this lovely collection book of Carpenters history, collectibles and photos together. The Mook was the first time I had ever seen this "list of Buried Treasure" printed.

Yuko appears at about 7:30 time


I was not there for this gathering, but I knew about it and waited impatiently to hear via 'Newville Avenue' if Richard Carpenter turned up. I know everyone there was so excited, as you can clearly see!
 
I've lost track of Yuka. She was/is a generous and kind soul. Like to hear her take on the Buried Treasure after all these years post publication. I wonder if Randy Schmidt rubs elbows with anyone familiar with status of list. Also, there's gotta be some studio musicians, engineers of whoever that have peeks into the past. See where I'm goin"?

Jeff
 
Does anyone remember a quote from Richard - this year - saying, "It's all gone?" To refresh your memory, there was a massive fire at Universal that destroyed a lot of stuff, and it's come out that the original masters that Richard used for the SINGLES SACD mixes were still sitting around instead of having been shipped back to Iron Mountain in Pennsylvania. There is reason to believe that when Richard requested the tapes be sent to Hollywood, he meant and got "all."

So while it's all well and good to reminisce and drool over old lists of what might've been, the fact is that here, now, today - we don't know what's left.

Harry
Actually,Richard's words in that January interview were "all done"- and he was answering the question about any possibility of further unreleased material being issued.

Richard has possession of all the vault material-it's in Iron Mountain.

Universal owns the master tapes of every recording released by A&M-those are the masters that were in Universal's storage facility when that fire happened.
 
I wrote A&M soon after newsletter publication. Old fashioned hand writing pleading for release of all songs painstakingly transcribed. No response nor did I honestly expect one. I can't be the only fan-addict clamoring for definitive recording catalog. Satisfying the best of curiosity if nothing else.Baffled by the shroud of mystery.

Jeff
There's no mystery here-Richard has full authority over the unreleased material,not A&M.And,a contractual clause prohibits A&M from releasing anything without Richard's permission.

If you had sent a self-addressed stamped envelope with your letter,you would've probably gotten a response,though.
 
After the Downey Fan Club disbanded, Richard Carpenter and crew sanctioned this CarpenterS International Fan Club based out of Knoxville, Tennessee. This fan club reported some things that hitherto had been swept under the rug or glossed over as it were.
I've always wanted tried and true info regarding Carpenter(S) recording career. Much information here has been addressed by various sources. Work leads, unfinished this-n-that's and so on. Some here claim authority as tho the vault key resided on their personal keychain. That being said I would like to re-open this mystery and subject it to further scrutiny. There will be those that chant RC has said on numerous occasions blah and blah and blah blah and so forth. Others will argue pointlessness. The mere questions beg answers. My quest is to unveil that which someone (in the know) knows. Fascinating titles and recording dates. There's a lot to peruse and speculate leaving some sort of enchantment. Click below and see whatcha think.

Fan Club Newsletter: August 1992 - Buried Treasure (.pdf)

Jeff
I'm very familiar with the Buried Treasures list and the info-letter attached to it-it's been circulating on the internet for about 18 years now.This is pretty much old news at this point.Richard isn't happy with the vault recordings for one reason or another-and that's why they're staying in the vault.

Richard gave his definitive answer to this question in January: "All Done!". People just have to learn to take "NO" for an answer.

But,I will say that many of those vault tracks are complete-including the three from the tan album: "Don't Leave Me","I Believe In You" and "Sebastian".A few MIA outtakes are complete,also : "All My Life","The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" and "Why Don't They Understand".And,Richard did comment on "All My Life"("It's good").

Also,Richard considered "Slaughter On Tenth Avenue" for release on "As Time Goes By",but evidently changed his mind at the last minute(possibly to make space for "Close Encounters"?).

Personally, I would love to hear "How High The Moon"-an outtake from Music,Music,Music.

Following the release of VOTH in 1983,Richard stated that there would be one more album-and a Christmas album.That came to fruition as Lovelines and An Old Fashioned Christmas,respectively. Richard had it all planned out back then what he intended to release.
 
I think when it comes to Karen and her voice, learning to accept that there is no more material ever to be released is still a hard pill to swallow....even 31 yrs later. What makes it even harder is knowing there are completed tracks that we will never hear, silenced forever. I don't know if what Mr J wrote is true or not (he's never gave out his sources, maybe these are just his opinions) but if that many tracks are complete and we know there must be a few more, it's enough work to at least finish a few and include them on some Japan compilation as bonus tracks.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to hear more of Karen's voice...sometimes we act like it's a sin to want to hear more of any recordings she may have completed. What an honor for so many fans to love an artist so much that they crave more from a voice after 31 years. She had the voice of a lifetime and for me it will never be enough of wanting more from her. Every album that Richard released since Karen passed away always made me feel the same....I was hearing Karen on a new song and it was like she was still here, alive yet I knew it wasn't true yet the album made me feel like time was still on her side until the end of the song/album was over then reality hit. I think a lot of the fans want to feel that feeling again, if only for the last time.

We know Richard will never be releasing any more material but it doesn't mean we can't hope or wish there was more on the Horizon. It's just sometimes around here it feels like people like to put other people in their places by saying accept it Richard is not releasing any more material, get use to it, you must take no for an answer. It's almost like a bully system. Of course I accept that Richard is done but it doesn't mean I can't want and crave for more.

I think there could have been other ways in which Richard could have told us in that interview that he is done. The hardest part for me was how abrupt his answer was, No, all done and that silence. Of course I can accept it, there is nothing else for me to do. However I just wished he had said something like......wow you know I'm still so honored that the Carpenters fan base is still as strong today as it was when Karen and I were recording and it's really an honor to hear that so many fans are still asking for more material, I'm proud and I know Karen would be proud that we are still loved so many here in the US and across the world but if I'm being honest there just isn't any more material that I feel would make it to another Carpenters album or that I would ever be releasing. I get asked this all the time and I'm still taken back because it tells me the fans still love what we created and they yearn for more even 31 yrs later but I'm sorry this is the end of the road for any further Carpenters releases.

Now that would have been a way to tell the fans it's really over.
 
My J sounds pretty confident that about 7 songs are completed. Add Jimmy Mac and Love Makin Love To You from the solo album and that mix from MacDoctor of WOJB, and not only would our fix for new songs give us relief from the pressures of life, but a new generation could find the musical harmonies and excellent vocal singing as refreshing as we do!
It's pop!
 
Sorry if my post seemed a bit harsh, but I'm a somewhat of a realist. I would rather spend my time enjoying what already exists than worry about stuff I might never hear. I've always been that way - expect the worst and hope for the best, and that way I'm rarely disappointed. With Richard's abrupt answer, I just accept it at face value. He's heard that question a thousand times - and that was just this week! :) So I forgive him for his abruptness.

Now "if" and I mean "if" something new were coming out, I'd be racing all of you for the front of the line, but I don't spend my precious time on this Earth dwelling on the would've, could've, should'ves and might-be's, and I guess my retort was a hope that maybe I could get you guys and gals to see it my way. But one thing I've learned about Internet forums is that rarely does anyone change their minds because of a posting on a message board.

So carry on your wish lists, your quests, your dreams, and please don't let me be a deterrent. It's the ones like you who often drive the efforts that ultimately see fruition.

Harry
 
Yes I suppose we can always hope. I do remember though when I first heard THE RAINBOW CONNECTION even before it was released on AS TIME GOES BY....on one of those sharing sites for music....cannot remember the name....so long ago....but I wept upon hearing her voice again...hearing something new....it was a beautiful experience....not my most favorite song of hers, but to hear her singing again....just pure magic!

Cam
 
I don't want to be misunderstood at this topic. My quest is to unravel the unanswered questions surrounding CarpenterS Complete Recording Resource which includes shelved material. Wish list aside the thrust here is discovering what's what. Mr J has the right idea detailing completed music however I too would appreciate substantiation. So I'm already learning new info. Channel energies to discovery.and.viability and maybe later badger RC about his decision...or not. In summary what and where did Karen and/or Richard lay vocals. Compiling the ultimate catalog for the "complete recording resource".

I hope I've provided clarity distinguishing the desire to know the actual haves in vault vs. have nots. At this point wishing in and of itself is futile as information is not forthcoming.

Jeff
 
The infamous Japanese Mook , with Richard Carpenter's handwritten English- endpage , letter to the fans,
expresses his desire that the Mook will serve as an Archival (Re-) Source.
My speculation is that the translation of that publication (from Japanese to English) is forbidden, as it
would open up a 'can of worms', a Pandora's box, that Richard does not want opened.
As he should be, and is, he holds the key-holder to Carpenters' Legacy.
It stretches credibility to believe that an individual who exercises control over this legacy, as does Richard
Carpenter with the career of Carpenters, is unaware of the infamous "buried treasure" list in that Mook.

His pronouncement in the recent interview "all done", as I have detailed elsewhere, is (at least, to me) an
expression of frustration over various issues in the recording industry, issues that inhibit not only future royalties due
on Carpenters' music (e.g., (almost) free distribution without monetary compensation), but unresolved problems with UMG.
(to wit: a conglomeration responsible for the destruction of Carpenters' master-tapes, bungling the latest vinyl release, perhaps
unwilling to distribute his completed Christmas recordings?).

Obviously, I may be, and probably am, wrong regarding the above synopsis.

Needless to say, and as a fan (since 1973) who listens to a Carpenters' album per day-- I still want more.
More of Karen's Voice.
More of that Carpenters' magic.

"It's never foolish to hold on to a dream. Sometimes it's the only thing we're left with."
That line, even though it derives from a television script, has always resonated with me.

Even if Richard Carpenter is unable, unwilling, or simply refuses, to release any extant completed vocals,
it would certainly pacify some speculation if he were able to give the fans an explanation as to the
proclamation "all done".
Granted, he does not owe the fans a more detailed explanation of anything he says, or does.
And, granted, he is "retired" and is busy with family life.
That's great. He deserves it. I wish him nothing but the best.

But, I always thought a full-length autobiography of Carpenters' career would be forthcoming.
(Certainly Chicago Review Press would whole-heartedly commission such an endeavor.)
The extant biographical materials, good as they are, do not really "Archive" anything of historical (accurate) detail.
American Music is forever changed because of he and Karen's music.
Carpenters' musical legacy should be accurately, honestly, presented in loving detail for posterity.
The Mook, was meant to be archival (he said it, it's there in his writing).
Thus, even if there is no future prospect of new recordings, at least there could be his
ultimate "this is why" such-and-such song is not "out there".
This is "why" I am "all done".

As it is, I spend hours combing through various materials, trying to collate everything.
Regrettably, with variations between sources, with editing and misrepresentations, it is
virtually impossible to get a fully accurate representation of their legacy.
A futile endeavor, I fear.

Carpenters' are too important to be left in such chaotic, historical disarray.

I even get confused with all the remixes of the music.
And, I've been listening to their music since 1973!

Well, thank God we have what we do have.
And, thankfully Richard Carpenter has held the torch this long.
A day without Karen's voice is like a day without sunshine.

So sorry for the protracted posting!
 
The infamous Japanese Mook , with Richard Carpenter's handwritten English- endpage , letter to the fans,
expresses his desire that the Mook will serve as an Archival (Re-) Source.
My speculation is that the translation of that publication (from Japanese to English) is forbidden, as it
would open up a 'can of worms', a Pandora's box, that Richard does not want opened.
No, it's not forbidden. Yuko Ogura could not find and English language publisher who would translate and publish the Mook. That's all.

In fact, if anyone knows of a publisher who would take it on, she may still be interested.
 
No, it's not forbidden. Yuko Ogura could not find and English language publisher who would translate and publish the Mook. That's all.

In fact, if anyone knows of a publisher who would take it on, she may still be interested.

I think you are right because I remember hearing about that, apparently it's very difficult to translate from Japanese to English. I have tried several apps that do just this by reading Japanese text and having it translate to English and it never comes out with any clarity. Once I saw that video of Yuko at the convention and realized she actually speaks pretty good English, why could an English Mook book have been translated? Yuko use to post here and could provide these details. A quick search shows the last time she appeared on this forum was in 2007 here is the last post I could find. She also changed her name, it is now Yuka.
http://www.amcorner.com/forum/threads/new-dvd-rock-legend-carpenters.6432/#post-57657
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom