Bernie Grundman engineer

[Jeff]

So, I have no idea how 24 or 48 or 4 trax are put together. Meaning how on earth did Bernie and assoc. take all of these overdubs and place them precisely without flaw? For instance with S's? There is never a time when I hear the multi-tracked harmonies out of sync. No s's s's, no mm mm no tut tut t't . The only place I hear that is on a couple of the Magic Lamp singles off From The Top. Well excused...young genius nevertheless. So in layman's terms how is this mastery assembled. Another question? Mastering? Later Richard or Jack back in the day hired top notch engineers apparently cuz on several other artists recordings I often hear the inept attempt to achieve same production. I can't understand how ultimate perfection was achieved at every turn. I've always been fascinated by this bravado. Finding an early attraction being a perfectionist from childhood I instantly recognized this technique. Then there's the "voice". Timeless muse, wizardry, gifted and able to lay every note, every time in place with seeming ease. I must understand making this look easy must be an intensive workout in musicianship and engineering.
I know we have resident authorities. I'd like to hear the input from those in the know for clarity and an even deeper appreciation for the craft of engineering.

Ty,

Jeff

 

[NowhereMan]

Here is a link to Bernie's website. I found it quite fascinating to browse through:

www.berniegrundmanmastering.com/

 

[Jeff]

Chris May do possess some of these answers? I didn't gather alot at the Grundman link.

 

[Chris May]

So, I have no idea how 24 or 48 or 4 trax are put together. Meaning how on earth did Bernie and assoc. take all of these overdubs and place them precisely without flaw? For instance with S's? There is never a time when I hear the multi-tracked harmonies out of sync. No s's s's, no mm mm no tut tut t't . The only place I hear that is on a couple of the Magic Lamp singles off From The Top. Well excused...young genius nevertheless. So in layman's terms how is this mastery assembled. Another question? Mastering? Later Richard or Jack back in the day hired top notch engineers apparently cuz on several other artists recordings I often hear the inept attempt to achieve same production. I can't understand how ultimate perfection was achieved at every turn. I've always been fascinated by this bravado. Finding an early attraction being a perfectionist from childhood I instantly recognized this technique. Then there's the "voice". Timeless muse, wizardry, gifted and able to lay every note, every time in place with seeming ease. I must understand making this look easy must be an intensive workout in musicianship and engineering.
I know we have resident authorities. I'd like to hear the input from those in the know for clarity and an even deeper appreciation for the craft of engineering.

Well it doesn't quite work that way, so let me explain the process.

When a song was recorded on - let's say 24 track, 2" tape, it was done in a recording studio where every instrument, drums, strings, horns, backing vocals and lead vocals are laid down. Because you only had 24 tracks (and on the Carpenters 2nd thru 5th albums they were limited to only 16 tracks), you had to combine instruments and vocals on one track often times. So for instance from around '74 on, the multitrack tape would be laid out as follows:

Track 1: Kick drum
Track 2: Snare drum
Track 3: Overhead (Left channel)
Track 4: Overhead (Right channel)
Track 5: Bass
Track 6: Piano (Left channel)
Track 7: Piano (Right channel)
Track 8: Backing vocals (BGVs)
Track 9: Backing vocals (BGVs)
Track 10: Backing vocals (BGVs)
Track 11: Backing vocals (BGVs)
Track 12: Strings (Cellos)
Track 13: Strings (Violas)
Track 14: Strings (Violins)
Track 15: Harp swells / Vibes
Track 16: Rhodes electric piano
Track 17: Trumpets
Track 18: Trombones
Track 19: Choir (Left channel)
Track 20: Choir (Right channel)
Track 21: Flute 1
Track 22: Flute 2 (Double) / Wurlitzer electric piano (fills) / Oboe (fills)
Track 23: Lead vocal
Track 24: Lead vocal double - choruses / Synth lines (intro & re-intro)

This is strictly a mockup based on the multitrack legends I've seen of theirs - but you get the idea. This was a very common kind of layout for a Carpenters record. There was track sharing that had to happen and because of all of the different things that Richard wanted to add, there simply weren't enough tracks for every single instrument and vocal to have their own separate track. Richard and I talk about this in our interview last year. Imagine when they only had 16 tracks like the early stuff, or better yet 8 tracks like the Offering album had. You get the idea.

Then what happens is, the tape is played back with all of these instruments and vocals aligned in a linear fashion playing simultaneously. Those get mixed down to the 2-channel master, left and right stereo. Each track gets assigned to a different place in the stereo mix, all providing a total balance, as well as EQ, reverb, chorus and various effects as desired.

Once the 2-channel tape mix is complete, it was THEN that it would go to mastering - i.e. someone like Bernie Grundman. There would be 2-channel mixes for every song on any given album that would go to the mastering studio. This is where the songs would be put in sequential order for the album, and given the final "polish" with regard to EQ etc. Mastering as it is referred to, can be a crucial piece of all of this, because you're now taking the final "mix" and beefing it up and adding further balance and stabilization. Once all of the songs individually go thru this process and are place in the order they're meant to appear on the album, a final album master is created - either acetate back in those days or reel-to-reel, CD, digital file etc as the technology progressed over the years. Then copies are made and distributed.

Hopefully this helps to add a little more insight into the total process. That's why it took them an average of 3-4 months to create an album.

**On a side note, djn mentioned the harmonies being out of "sync". This has nothing to do with an alignment of tracks. The tracks are always perfectly aligned because they're side-by-side on the tape. An "S" or a "T" or what have you that is out of sync with another on a vocal track is nothing more than human error - OR in some cases intentional expression, depending on the artist to give a more natural or realistic performance. Usually a producer will however push for perfect "in and out" points when punching multi-layered vocals, or if you have several people singing the same thing at once, making sure that the starts and stops are perfectly synced on a performance. If they aren't, that is human doing and not related to a track alignment of any sort.

 

[Jeff]

Thank you Chris! This is a fascinating read. I always always wanted to be a fly on the wall. But alas, Fan Club never granted that honor and I never understood why? I could be quiet in a studio...quiet as a church mouse.

 

[ullalume]

Thank you Chris! This is a fascinating read. I always always wanted to be a fly on the wall. But alas, Fan Club never granted that honor and I never understood why? I could be quiet in a studio...quiet as a church mouse.

Was that A Mr. Show reference?

 

[Mike Blakesley]

One of my favorite examples of vocals being "out of sync" on purpose is the Fleetwood Mac song, "Hold Me." The Lindsey Buckingham backing vocals on that tune are all over the place and it really adds to the charm of the song.

 

[GaryAlan]

Given the beautiful description, Chris May has presented above, of the technicalities of the process,
I fail to understand why the "Christmas Alphabet" song ( the duet with Kristy Mcnichol )
was not recorded on multiple tracks. Why would Karen's vocals ever be recorded on the same track
as a "guest" singer.
The same question hold true for the German duet of Silent Night with Georgia Engel --"Still Nachte".
Why, given the available technology in 1977- 1978, would Karen Carpenter have her vocal tracks "locked-in"
on the same track as the 'guest stars'.
Is the same track used for Karen and John Denver's duet, Coming Through The Rye ?

 

[Chris May]

Given the beautiful description, Chris May has presented above, of the technicalities of the process,
I fail to understand why the "Christmas Alphabet" song ( the duet with Kristy Mcnichol )
was not recorded on multiple tracks. Why would Karen's vocals ever be recorded on the same track
as a "guest" singer.
The same question hold true for the German duet of Silent Night with Georgia Engel --"Still Nachte".
Why, given the available technology in 1977- 1978, would Karen Carpenter have her vocal tracks "locked-in"
on the same track as the 'guest stars'.
Is the same track used for Karen and John Denver's duet, Coming Through The Rye ?

Often times the reason for this is because the TV mix was created "live". Either Karen and/or the guest sang their part during the video taping as opposed to pre-recording in the studio, forcing both vocals onto the same capture/mix.

To answer your question about the John Denver appearance, Karen recorded her tracks ahead of time, as you hear her vocals "doubled" during the Good Vibrations segment. The only way this was possible was to track the vocal then overdub a second unison lead vocal part in-studio.

 

[GaryAlan]

Thanks so much for the elaboration !

This is where I get confused...(should I be?)...
According to the official Carpenter site, we have this....question and answer....
"Q: On the Carol Burnett Show, where you are all singing the Bacharach medley--- is it live, or was it prerecorded?"
"A: Live to track recorded at CBS Television City for the show."

I think the answer--from the Carpenter site-- is ambiguous:
First, Carol Burnett Show may have been in front of a studio audience, but, it was prerecorded/taped for airing.
Every song is recorded 'Live to Track' , whether it be in a recording studio or television studio-- how could it be otherwise ?
Back in the 1970's, if memory serves, most songs were prerecorded for airing, but that prerecorded audio is played
when the performance is done in front of a live-studio audience.
Needless to say,then, the audio for the music is prerecorded.
Whenever guest stars 'sang' along with Carpenters, chances remain they all sang on One Track--
prerecorded together, at the same tine--so that it could air on television properly. Otherwise, it could be --in the 1970's--a technical nightmare.
The 1976 Hits Medley remains an instance where Richard states: " ..The lead, for once, was performed live..." (ref: As Time Goes By).

 

[Chris May]

Thanks so much for the elaboration !

This is where I get confused...(should I be?)...
According to the official Carpenter site, we have this....question and answer....
"Q: On the Carol Burnett Show, where you are all singing the Bacharach medley--- is it live, or was it prerecorded?"
"A: Live to track recorded at CBS Television City for the show."

I think the answer--from the Carpenter site-- is ambiguous:
First, Carol Burnett Show may have been in front of a studio audience, but, it was prerecorded/taped for airing.
Every song is recorded 'Live to Track' , whether it be in a recording studio or television studio-- how could it be otherwise ?
Back in the 1970's, if memory serves, most songs were prerecorded for airing, but that prerecorded audio is played
when the performance is done in front of a live-studio audience.
Needless to say,then, the audio for the music is prerecorded.
Whenever guest stars 'sang' along with Carpenters, chances remain they all sang on One Track--
prerecorded together, at the same tine--so that it could air on television properly. Otherwise, it could be --in the 1970's--a technical nightmare.
The 1976 Hits Medley remains an instance where Richard states: " ..The lead, for once, was performed live..." (ref: As Time Goes By).

"Live to track" simply means there was a pre-recorded instrumental backing track that all parties involved sang live to. While that was happening, the live vocals would be mixed along with the instrumental track, and that's what the television audience heard. This often times is what we were left with years later. *It's important to note that sometimes they would capture the live vocals on a separate track for television so they had more mixing capability later on in post-production. This is why with the Perry Como Special per se, Richard was able to finagle Perry's vocals for inclusion with the As Time Goes By release.

Regarding the '76 Medley, I think Richard inflects a bit of sarcasm with the statement, simply to imply that a majority of their songs on television - especially the hits - we're usually lip-synced when it was just Karen by herself.

 

[GaryAlan]

This, too from the As Time Goes By Liner Notes:
Hits Medley:
"As with some of the other television tracks, the piano and drums were re-recorded in Stereo."
Also,
Como Medley:
"Como sang live to track in the television studio; not on the multi-track...locked-in with the entire arrangement."
And,
Medley,Superstar/Rainy Days:
"aired December 8,1976 ,"Videotaped 9/30,10/1&2. This track recorded 9/25 , vocals recorded the following day."

I see, then, recording a 'track' implies (only) the instruments to accompany the vocals; vocals are 'tracked' separately .(?)

 

[Chris May]

This, too from the As Time Goes By Liner Notes:
Hits Medley:
"As with some of the other television tracks, the piano and drums were re-recorded in Stereo."
Also,
Como Medley:
"Como sang live to track in the television studio; not on the multi-track...locked-in with the entire arrangement."
And,
Medley,Superstar/Rainy Days:
"aired December 8,1976 ,"Videotaped 9/30,10/1&2. This track recorded 9/25 , vocals recorded the following day."

I see, then, recording a 'track' implies (only) the instruments to accompany the vocals; vocals are 'tracked' separately .(?)

To further elaborate, when Carpenters went in to record an instrumental track for television, it was still all done on multi-track tape, at A&M, and mixed-down so it could be sung-to "live" on the television soundstage. This is why Richard was able to go back years later - to the multi-track - to replace the piano and drums. He then could take the live track of Perry's vocal (from the second tape created while the vocal performance was taped in the soundstage) and marry it up with the original multi-track that contained just the instrumentation and do a remix. Make sense?

 

[BarryT60]

This may have already been covered - but I wanted to ask about This Masquerade, on the Ella medley... Sounds exactly like the Now & Then version to me.... Do we think Karen re-record her verse for the special?

And while we're at it... I would streak through the streets of Nashville for a complete version of Karen singing "It's Impossible'.... (Nashville may have a problem with that - but I digress...)

 

[Chris May]

This may have already been covered - but I wanted to ask about This Masquerade, on the Ella medley... Sounds exactly like the Now & Then version to me.... Do we think Karen re-record her verse for the special?

And while we're at it... I would streak through the streets of Nashville for a complete version of Karen singing "It's Impossible'.... (Nashville may have a problem with that - but I digress...)

It IS the same version heard on Now and Then, however a remix. They took the first part of the song, remixed verse one with Karen's original lead vocal in, then pulled it out for the portion that Ella was to sing.

 

[GaryAlan]

Obviously, my next question....Why do this on 'This Masquerade' ?
Using the 1973 Lead vocal for This Masquerade, only to segue into 1980 vocals
never felt --or, sounded--'continuous' to me on that Karen/Ella Medley.
With all of the description given in the Liner Notes (As Time Goes By) about the technicalities of
meshing Karen's pre-recorded vocals with Ella's Live vocals, why ,then, go through the
process of re-mixing the 1973 intro with the 1980 remaining parts ?
( Also, those Liner Notes neglect to mention the alteration.)

And, yes, BarryT60, It's Impossible , from the 1974 Como Special, is out-of-this-world !
Why was that not given a full rendition, for release, at that time ? Incredible vocals.

 

[Chris May]

Obviously, my next question....Why do this on 'This Masquerade' ?
Using the 1973 Lead vocal for This Masquerade, only to segue into 1980 vocals
never felt --or, sounded--'continuous' to me on that Karen/Ella Medley.
With all of the description given in the Liner Notes (As Time Goes By) about the technicalities of
meshing Karen's pre-recorded vocals with Ella's Live vocals, why ,then, go through the
process of re-mixing the 1973 intro with the 1980 remaining parts ?
( Also, those Liner Notes neglect to mention the alteration.)

All they did was remix the song so that following verse 1, Ella would have an open instrumental canvas to sing over. The reason it sounds "non-continuous" is because Ella phrases differently than Karen by coming in with the phrase later than Karen did on the master lead.

 

[GaryAlan]

Well, I am misunderstanding something:
Chris, are you saying the introductory verse Vocals for This Masquerade are vocals Karen recorded in 1980, for this Special ?

I realize everything else after this song, in that Medley, is 'new' material, and newly recorded;
but, my ears say that the first verse by Karen is the 1973 Original Lead Vocal .
The discontinuity I am referring to is between presenting, visually, a 30-year old Karen Carpenter on screen, lip-syncing
(the beginning of ) her 23-years old Karen vocals on This Masquerade--
and, then, for the remainder of the Medley
(well, the rest of entire show) it is the present (1980) Karen Carpenter vocals being heard.
In other words, why go through the trouble of lifting that (beginning) vocal, instead of singing it anew in 1980 ?
Or, is it being said that all of the vocals, in this Medley, are from 1980 ? (the song is merely 'remixed'.)

 

[Chris May]

Well, I am misunderstanding something:
Chris, are you saying the introductory verse Vocals for This Masquerade are vocals Karen recorded in 1980, for this Special ?

I realize everything else after this song, in that Medley, is 'new' material, and newly recorded;
but, my ears say that the first verse by Karen is the 1973 Original Lead Vocal .
The discontinuity I am referring to is between presenting, visually, a 30-year old Karen Carpenter on screen, lip-syncing
(the beginning of ) her 23-years old Karen vocals on This Masquerade--
and, then, for the remainder of the Medley
(well, the rest of entire show) it is the present (1980) Karen Carpenter vocals being heard.
In other words, why go through the trouble of lifting that (beginning) vocal, instead of singing it anew in 1980 ?
Or, is it being said that all of the vocals, in this Medley, are from 1980 ? (the song is merely 'remixed'.)

The way it was done is, all of the medley - with the exception of 'This Masquerade' - was recorded in 1980 to include the instrumental as well as Karen's leads. Because it starts off with This Masquerade, Karen and Richard decided to use the album version from '73, which included the instrumental backing tracks as well as Karen's original lead vocal for verse 1.

So, you have This Masquerade from '73 edited at the front of this entire rest of the medley which was newly recorded. Karen's vocal from '73 comes in at the top, and then Karen in 1980 recorded lead vocals for her parts throughout the entire rest of the medley (at A&M prior to the TV taping).

Then everybody gets to the television studio, Karen lip-syncs over the top of her '73 lead as well as new '80 leads on her portions of the medley, and Ella - who is live on a microphone - sings her parts "live" when it's her turn. All of this gets recorded at the television studio so Ella's "live" vocals are now captured, along with whatever Karen sang ahead of time. Hence you have now a completed medley. Does this make sense?

 

[GaryAlan]

Beautiful, Chris,
Thanks !

 

[Jeff]

I knew I posed these questions to the right person thank you very much it's all coming into focus more to follow Chris.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Karen could have nailed this live most likely in one take, I could never understand why she didn't do this live with Ella. The opening instrumental could have still been used but instead let Karen perform it live.

Did they not want to inconvenience Ella in case it took Karen multiple takes for her live verses or did someone put doubt in Karen that it would be better to lip synch it when we know she could have easily performed this live. Karen's live take would have sounded equally as good as Ella's live take. We know Ella preferred live but can't understand why both were not done the same way. However I can imagine Karen saying oh I'd be way too nervous doing this live in front of Ella so better play it safe. One could never tell by watching that Karen was nervous she was more in awe of being in her presence.

 

[Chris May]

Karen could have nailed this live most likely in one take, I could never understand why she didn't do this live with Ella. The opening instrumental could have still been used but instead let Karen perform it live.

Did they not want to inconvenience Ella in case it took Karen multiple takes for her live verses or did someone put doubt in Karen that it would be better to lip synch it when we know she could have easily performed this live. Karen's live take would have sounded equally as good as Ella's live take. We know Ella preferred live but can't understand why both were not done the same way. However I can imagine Karen saying oh I'd be way too nervous doing this live in front of Ella so better play it safe. One could never tell by watching that Karen was nervous she was more in awe of being in her presence.

My guess is they realized the value of taping it at A&M vs. live in the television studio. There *is* a quality difference. Although Karen still sang all of her parts in one take at A&M for this medley, sonically they still sounded better recorded in a controlled environment on a Neumann U-87, vs. on cheaper mics and more reflective acoustics at the ABC soundstage. Again, perfectionism at its finest!

 

[GaryAlan]

Excellent observations , Chris & Chris,
However,this still begs the question, why was not This Masquerade recorded in 1980 at A&M Studios for the Medley,
and then utilized with the remainder of the 1980 Ella Medley ? You would still possess the controlled environment on quality microphones.
As lamented in the Article, Carpenters Take Quest For Perfection Too Far (October 29,1991, Milwaukee Journal),
sometimes it is best to be a bit less than perfect.
Source:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=bCwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5629,5674299&hl=en

 

[Chris May]

Excellent observations , Chris & Chris,
However,this still begs the question, why was not This Masquerade recorded in 1980 at A&M Studios for the Medley,
and then utilized with the remainder of the 1980 Ella Medley ? You would still possess the controlled environment on quality microphones.
As lamented in the Article, Carpenters Take Quest For Perfection Too Far (October 29,1991, Milwaukee Journal),
sometimes it is best to be a bit less than perfect.
Source:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=bCwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5629,5674299&hl=en

Well again, look at all of the times Richard went with "this" mix (i.e. Rainy Days remix with deleted strings at the solo), or "that" work-lead take (i.e. Superstar) where he's stated emphatically "It was just fine the way it was - no need to do it differently." My guess is this was their sentiment about Masquerade.