Ave Maria

[newvillefan]

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help me on this one (calling Harry! )

I have two mp3 versions of Ave Maria that I loaded onto my PC from CDs. One is from the box set 'From The Top', the version that has a 'clean' intro, not linked to the Winter Wonderland medley.

The other version is the rare 'without the choir' one, from the West Germany Christmas Portrait release from 1990.

I listened to them back to back, and couldn't work out what was different (other than the missing choir of course).

Then it hit me - they are in totally different keys!!! I can't work out whether the box set version has been speeded up or something, resulting in a higher pitch, but its definitely there.

It's a full semitone higher as a recording and it has got me completely bamboozled!! Has anyone else noticed same?

Any help would be appreciated

Stephen

 

[Harry]

The German PORTRAIT version is the reference version for speed. FROM THE TOP has inexplicably speeded the song up.

Since you brought it up, I thought I'd compare the versions I have around here.

All versions except the German CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT have the remixed choir version.

German CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT (and US LP) = segue, slow, no choir
US CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT = segue, slow, choir
FROM THE TOP = clean open, fast, choir
Time/Life CHRISTMAS w/CARPENTERS = slight segue, slow, choir
CHRISTMAS COLLECTION (and remastered Japan mini LP) = segue, slow, choir
READERS DIGEST set = clean open, slow, choir
ESSENTIAL COLLECTION = clean open, slow, choir

I have to comment here and say that I've always preferred the non-choir version, but as I went through these, it was the ESSENTIAL COLLECTION version that triggered the goosebumps. There's something about the mastering of that set that's just plain magical. It's now obvious that one of the things Richard 'fixed' with the newer box set was the speed of "Ave Maria." The FROM THE TOP version now just sounds wrong.

Harry
...who could skip church with all the "Ave Maria's" floating around here, online...

 

[newvillefan]

Harry

Thanks, I thought I could depend on you for the definitive answer. Strange that that From The Top version came out like it did, but nice to have confirmation nonetheless.

Due to buy the Essential Collection soon, so will compare with your assessment of the version that gives goosebumps!

Stephen

 

[Harry]

It's got to be the same overall recording, but something about the mastering of that set gets me every time I compare it to other versions.

For one thing, it's louder. And I know that that's supposed to be a digital no-no, and yet this set gets away with it on a gut-feeling level.

I'm surprised that no-one else has mentioned that little glitch on FROM THE TOP.

Harry
NP: ESSENTIAL COLLECTION - Carpenters

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

OMG!! I just did this comparo, got my German CD out and compared it to the From The Top CD. Karen sounds way to fast on From the Top, it sounds like she is on a race to finish. It also in my opinion tends to make her sound higher in pitch (is that possible) I now don't care for this version. I don't have the essential collection.

I guess it would be hard to compare the exact time since the German Cd seques right from track 16 into 17 on the counter where this is not the case on FTT CD.

Thanks Stephen for this, I like finding out these things & how Richard has tweaked diff stuff like this.

...listening to Ave Maria with 85 degree temps outside now, online...

 

[Harry]

It also in my opinion tends to make her sound higher in pitch (is that possible)

Yes - faster speed makes for a higher pitch. Just stick any album on your turntable and play it at 45. It'll be both faster and higher.

The difference on this track is noticeable in comparison, but is really only slightly faster. It's one of those things that went un-noticed by many of us until now. And thanks to Stephen for bringing it to our attention.

Harry
...where it's also about 85 or so, online...

 

[shutupndance]

I played the German Ave Maria and the From The Top together and they seem to be the same speed. I have the thin box set of From The Top and the speed seems to be fine.

 

[newvillefan]

Hi all

Just as a footnote to this post, I've compared notes with a friend who has the slimline 'From The Top' (above post?), and they found no difference between the versions we've mentioned.

Maybe then this is a fault with just the LP-size box sets only (the slimline case set came out a while later, so has the problem been caught and corrected??).

Stephen

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Another good point, I have the LP style box of From the Top so that is the version I am comparing and I could tell right away Karen sounded a tad faster than my German CD. Like Harry said, it's not drastic but is noticable.

 

[Harry]

Fascinating. I too have the 12x12 box set of FROM THE TOP. Now I'm intrigued as to what other differences there might be between the two iterations of FROM THE TOP.

Great! Just what I need - another box set!

Harry
...not all that eager for another FROM THE TOP box set, online...

 

[Chris May]

I always thought that the sped up "From The Top" version was intentional. I remember years ago finding that while the "Christmas Portrait" mix was in the key of A Flat, the remix from 1991 was in A NATURAL, a whole 1/2 step higher, not to mention the speed thing. The fact that it was augmented a perfect 1/2 step, I just figured that was Richard's intention for whatever reason. Strange, but who knows! -Chris

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I wonder if that is why the 12" box set of FTT was replaced by the smaller style box set? Was Richard unhappy with the sped up version & fixed it on the smaller version set? What else could also have been changed?

I don't have the smaller box set & I don't have the essential box set either, I'll have to rely on you all to help with that. Someone here must have both version of the box set to sometime compare each for differences besides Ave Maria.

...never thinking that even box sets could be diff, online...

 

[close2u]

A friend of mine from the Vancouver area noticed the faster/higher-pitched "Ave Maria" at first listen when he purchased FROM THE TOP. He sent a letter to Richard asking about it and received a personal reply from RC saying that it was mastered at a higher speed than intended and most definitely a mistake. He commented that it would be corrected on future editions. He also complimented my friend for having a great ear!

I never noticed it before it was brought to my attention. I think I skipped over some of the Christmas songs when I first got FROM THE TOP. The rarities required so much attention!

Randy

 

[newvillefan]

Well there we go, Randy has provided us with the definitive reason.

That's what I love about this room - I ask the question and within 12 replies (count 'em, just 12 !) we're down to a personal written letter explaining the reason from none other than RICHARD CARPENTER!!!

Fascinating stuff and thanks for your help guys!

Now, what else can I dig up that's different on the box set...

Stephen

 

[Harry]

Thanks Randy for clearing this up.

I never noticed it before it was brought to my attention. I think I skipped over some of the Christmas songs when I first got FROM THE TOP. The rarities required so much attention!

That's likely the reason I never noticed it either, since whenever I listened to the box set, I probably skipped over the Christmas stuff. And when Christmas rolled around, I'd listen to the full Christmas albums.

Harry
...expecting some rain today, online...

 

[mr J.]

If anyone has a strong preference for the original "Ave Maria",It is still available on the CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT cassette tape.(I strongly prefer the original).And,believe it or not,the mastering on the cassette is better than the Special Edition CD!

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Nothing beats the original German CD, not even the cassette. I'm suprised there are not more German CD's on ebay. Either there must not have been that many made or...there all just sitting somewhere in a German Used Cd store collecting dust.

who'd rather think it was the first than the last, online....

 

[andywithaz]

Actually, if I am correct, I think the cassette finally went out of print this January. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Bruno]

Chris, many copies of the German CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT CD were made, because for years I was able to buy copies of this CD as presents for friends. I alone own two of them.

Perhaps those who bought that CD love it so much that they don't want to sell it?

Bruno