1983. . .what was planned

[ullalume]

Hey all,

Thought it might be interesting to create a sort of time-line to find out what the duo had planned for this year. . . . bittersweet, of course, but I think we can handle that.

Please note that for some of the below I have no evidence to back things up. . .just info in the back of my mind that I'm pretty sure is true.

1983

Jan - Promo for Grammy's.
Feb 11th - mid-June - Recording for New Album
Feb 23rd - Presenters on Grammy Ceremony.
June/July - New Album released.
June/July - 1st single released (In Love Alone, perhaps?)
June-July - Small scale domestic touring.
Aug-Sept- Planned (I think) limited UK tour.
Aug - 2nd single release (I'm still not over you, perhaps).
Oct - Recording for the Carpenters 6th and final TV Special. . .possibly Xmas themed, possibly not.
Nov-3rd and final single release.

And of course Karen would have gone public with her eating disorder during promotion for the new album.

Don't really know what I've got to gain from this post. . . just bored and obsessed, I suppose.

Laters

Neil

 

[Actorman]

Neil,

I think that is a good guess as to how the year would have played out. It would have been really interesting to see how a new album and singles would have performed in the Thriller/MTV era of 1983 - 1985 and how (or if) Richard would have adapted their sound to compete with what was going musically at the time.

Was there really supposed to be a sixth TV special or is that just speculation on your part? I hadn't heard there were any plans for another special.

I also wonder if Karen and/or Richard would have been asked to participate in "We Are The World" in '85.

 

[Jeff]

I kinda think that any and all future successes would've hinged on Karen alone. Perhaps the occasional CarpenterS record or two...a theme project or such. Sometimes I wonder if Rich had got busy with cousin Mary earlier say in 79 or 80 if Karen would've been more freely expressed. So the scenario I see in '83 has a successful, formidable songbird either behind her drums or sticking those drumsticks where she saw fit.

Sorry Neil, didn't mean to dis-rail your topic.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

It's possible Karen could have done what Olivia did with "Grace and Gratitude", "Gaia" or even a Hallmark exclusive like her "Stronger Than Before" all themed about getting through the darkest time in your life (Olivia battling cancer, Karen her struggle with anorexia) songs of healing, songs of hope, knowing that your inner self can become stronger than you ever knew possible, living through your struggles and surviving or as Olivia says a thriver. It's all about your journey and how it not only heals you but can heal those around you in song. I'd like to think something like this could have happened. Think of all the talk shows she could have guested on with not only discussing her issue but singing a song from her healing CD to show others "Help Is Always Here"

"In this world where music is the healer of your soul...
come with me and share a song of hope to make you whole...
in this world where laughter is the joy inside your heart...
look inside you'll find it no matter where you are....

 

[ullalume]

Yeah, a sixth special was

Neil,

I think that is a good guess as to how the year would have played out. It would have been really interesting to see how a new album and singles would have performed in the Thriller/MTV era of 1983 - 1985 and how (or if) Richard would have adapted their sound to compete with what was going musically at the time.

Was there really supposed to be a sixth TV special or is that just speculation on your part? I hadn't heard there were any plans for another special.

I also wonder if Karen and/or Richard would have been asked to participate in "We Are The World" in '85.

No, the 6th TV special was due. . . that much I'm sure about. Weintraub sorted a 5 special deal after the '76 special.

And djn. . . derailing isn't a possibility on this board

 

[goodjeans]

...was Karen scheduled to record "All Time High" ? I either read it somewhere or dreamt it.

 

[A&M Retro]

Carpenters were tentatively scheduled to play the beautiful outdoor Starlight Theatre in Kansas City, Mo. A friend worked there in publicity, and he shared that with me not long after Karen's passing. They were supposed to perform there in the summer of '83.

 

[BarryT60]

Neil, I think it's fun to surmise... particularly, with some actual back-up on your side!

As far as single releases, I'm not sure - but I would think I'm Still Not Over You may never have been written, as I felt the title may have been inspired by Karen's passing... Do we know when that one was written?

Not necessarily for 1983 - but I always felt Karen would have been utter perfection in one of the Disney Romantic ballads that came to be in the 90's... Theme from Beauty & The Beast for instance..

As for 1983 singles, that back half was a potpourri of sounds... but slower love songs were MIA... I'm going to assume RC would have found some up-tempo songs to incorporate into the mix, and we might have gotten one of those... Perhaps Karen might have suggested and won on a Carpenters version of If I Had You... I can see that as a winner with the other popular songs of the latter part of 1983...

Every Breath You Take, Tell her About It, Islands In The Stream, Total Eclipse of the Heart, All Night Long... With Michael Jackson's Paul McCartney's and Kenny Rodger's resurgence, I think the disc jockeys might have made room for an edgier mid-tempo Carpenters tune..

 

[mr J.]

Hey all,

Thought it might be interesting to create a sort of time-line to find out what the duo had planned for this year. . . . bittersweet, of course, but I think we can handle that.

Please note that for some of the below I have no evidence to back things up. . .just info in the back of my mind that I'm pretty sure is true.

1983

Jan - Promo for Grammy's.
Feb 11th - mid-June - Recording for New Album
Feb 23rd - Presenters on Grammy Ceremony.
June/July - New Album released.
June/July - 1st single released (In Love Alone, perhaps?)
June-July - Small scale domestic touring.
Aug-Sept- Planned (I think) limited UK tour.
Aug - 2nd single release (I'm still not over you, perhaps).
Oct - Recording for the Carpenters 6th and final TV Special. . .possibly Xmas themed, possibly not.
Nov-3rd and final single release.

And of course Karen would have gone public with her eating disorder during promotion for the new album.

Don't really know what I've got to gain from this post. . . just bored and obsessed, I suppose.

Laters

Neil

This would be a total exercise in futility-as all of this is just pure speculation.K&R had nothing definite planned for 1983. We know that K&R were planning on recording a new album that Spring-but we don't know if that would've been completed and released in 1983.

The status of taping a final TV special was in limbo by 1983.ABC may have renegotiated the deal with K&R-if ABC required them to complete the final special within a certain time frame.

We don't know when,or if,Karen would've publicly discussed her Anorexia.It was a relatively unknown disorder back in 1983-she might have decided to not discuss it until several years down the road.

But,again,this is all just pure speculation.

One thing I can probably say: if Karen had lived and was able to witness the phenomenal success of Linda Ronstadt's What's New in late 1983-there's a pretty good chance that K&R would've summoned Nelson Riddle,Billy May or Peter Knight back into the studio for a full Standards album.

I would also say that Patti Austin's "Baby Come To Me"(#1 hit in Feb. 1983) would've worked very well for K&R-Richard could've done a fantastic arrangement with that song.

Barbra Streisand's "The Way He Makes Me Feel" is another 1983 single that would've been well-suited for Karen.

 

[GaryAlan]

Karen and Richard, outside of mere speculation, were gearing up for a return to an active Career.
I'd like to believe, and this is my pure speculation, that Karen would have insisted that her "..F great Album" be released,
or, at the very least, the duo revisiting musical genres outside of the familiar context and comfort zone of the duo.
Another Passage?
Recalling, The Police (Every Breath You Take) and Michael Jackson (Billy Jean, Beat It) were Top Songs .


On the side of less speculation, we have these words:
Newsletter #75, June 1982 : "A fall tour remains a possibility"
"...they...will be involved in projects in the future..." (RE: Pay Television Performance, Q/A)
(Coleman, page 320) February 1,1983:
"...they met for dinner on Sunset Boulevard. Their stage producer, Joe Layton joined them to discuss their return to Concert work."
"...She enthusiastically looked ahead to recording sessions and concerts." (To Herb Alpert, the week previous to Feb 1983. ibid.page 324).
People,Feb.21,1983 : "She was planning to record an Album this spring."
People,Nov.21,1983: "...Karen had decided to share her story with the World via talk-show appearances, and the like...."
Close To You, Remembering the CarpentersRichard Carpenter, 47 min)
"...Music,Music,Music, which became our final special...only because of what ultimately happened with Karen..."

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I would also say that Patti Austin's "Baby Come To Me"(#1 hit in Feb. 1983) would've worked very well for K&R-Richard could've done a fantastic arrangement with that song.

Really? I honestly don't hear that. I know she did well with other Temperton songs but this one requires a little more soul than Karen had. I can't fathom her on this one.

Ed

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

It's also important to remember that Karen and Richard were commercially cold at this point. One tune went to #16 and nothing else worked. The previous album didn't do anything either. I'm not sure I see Carpenters being successful anymore. They certainly weren't above being trendy (Want You Back attempted to prove that) but they were never any good at that sort of thing. The level of success they enjoyed previously had just about passed. Had Karen gone solo, it's hard to know what would have happened with that. She might have moved to acting with an occasional album.

Ed

 

[newvillefan]

It's also important to remember that Karen and Richard were commercially cold at this point. One time went to #16 and nothing else worked. The previous album didn't do anything either. I'm not sure I see Carpenters being successful anymore. They certainly weren't above being trendy (Want You Back attempted to prove that) but they were never any good at that sort of thing. The level of success they enjoyed previously had just about passed. Had Karen gone solo, it's hard to know what would have happened with that. She might have moved to acting with an occasional album.

I'm with you on that Ed. I do believe their career was pretty much over by 1983, unless Richard took a different musical direction that would generate new interest in them and there was not much chance of that happening. The public wasn't interested in sappy love songs like 'You're Enough' by 1983. The only reason Voice Of The Heart sold as well in the UK is because it was the first posthumous release.

 

[song4u]

I like to think that if Karen had pulled through from her collapse in February 1983 and "gone public" about her struggle with an eating disorder, she would have received a lot of encouragement from her fans from all over the world, as well as fellow celebs who were unaware. Perhaps then she wouldn't have worried so much that their fans wouldn't wait while she had further treatment. It would be my priority that she first get all the help she needed to further her recovery. Her fans just didn't know of her struggles so we kept asking when, when, when is the new album coming out and when will they be touring.

That said, I think the logical step for them would have been to do a nostalgia album like Linda Ronstadt, or even a Broadway album like Barbra Streisand. They would have excelled at it, as we can tell from their recordings of "I Can Dream Can't I", "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" and "Little Girl Blue".

Also, with Karen's participation, we would have had more in depth Carpenters biographies and who knows - maybe she would have done something independent of Richard after all.

It's just a "dirty old shame" it turned out the way it did.

 

[CraigGA]

I agree with song4u, but it would have happened 5 years later giving Karen time to finish her therapy and time for Richard for a change of focus for new songs without a need for the OK Chorale.

Craig

 

[mr J.]

Really? I honestly don't hear that. I know she did well with other Temperton songs but this one requires a little more soul than Karen had. I can't fathom her on this one.

Ed

Karen was able to be quite soulful when she wanted to be. Eloise Laws' original version of "Strength Of A Woman" was much more soulful (than Patti Austin's "Baby Come To Me")-and yet K&R bested Eloise's version.

Karen gets really soulful on "If I Had You"-give that another listen.

 

[mr J.]

It's also important to remember that Karen and Richard were commercially cold at this point. One tune went to #16 and nothing else worked. The previous album didn't do anything either. I'm not sure I see Carpenters being successful anymore. They certainly weren't above being trendy (Want You Back attempted to prove that) but they were never any good at that sort of thing. The level of success they enjoyed previously had just about passed. Had Karen gone solo, it's hard to know what would have happened with that. She might have moved to acting with an occasional album.

Ed

K&R would've still been successful post 1983-but only with the right type of albums.The top-40 pop singles thing was over by 1982-but K&R would've had plenty of success with albums that followed the template of Christmas Portrait and Horizon-and Christmas Portrait was already a classic by 1983.

I agree that K&R weren't cut out for doing commercial Pop or anything trendy.

 

[ullalume]

I agree with song4u, but it would have happened 5 years later giving Karen time to finish her therapy and time for Richard for a change of focus for new songs without a need for the OK Chorale.

Craig

Hey Craig,

I think it's important to realize that the Choral appear on songs only because Karen was gone. If you look at the material released before her death (excluding Portrait), only on IKTBIL, Fall in Love Again, Occupants, Evita and The Wedding Song does the choral appear. Richard was absolutely commited to their overdub sound, never more so than on MIA. Had she lived, Now, You're Enough etc would have had their trademark sound, IMHO.

Personally, after her death, I think A)it was a helluva lot faster and cheaper to get in the choir (and we don't know how much A&M were throwing , in bucks or time allowance, at VOH/Lovelines/ATGB and B)he may have felt without Karen his BG vocals alone sound a little "dry" as Stephen has stated before. . .something I agree with if you listen to Your Baby and Primetime Love. . .I still prefer it to the choral, but it's a million miles from their melting pot harmonies.

 

[newvillefan]

he may have felt without Karen his BG vocals alone sound a little "dry" as Stephen has stated before. . .something I agree with if you listen to Your Baby and Primetime Love

Must say I've never been enamoured with either of those two songs...they would have made MIA an even more dull album.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Karen was able to be quite soulful when she wanted to be. Eloise Laws' original version of "Strength Of A Woman" was much more soulful (than Patti Austin's "Baby Come To Me")-and yet K&R bested Eloise's version.

Karen gets really soulful on "If I Had You"-give that another listen.

We disagree. Karen could do many things and had an amazing voice - no doubt. To my ears, I would never equate her vocals as soulful in any way.

Ed

 

[GaryAlan]

Richard Carpenter seems quite content with the utilization of Choir.

The Nevada Daily Mail, November 23rd, 1983:
"These are definitely not outtakes, meaning cuts discarded earlier as unworthy.."says Carpenter.
"Richard Carpenter had booked time in their favorite Los Angeles Studio starting February 11th."
"I think it's a beautiful combination, a great singer and a pop choir." (Richard Carpenter)

Source:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...EgrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=29UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1534,5621388

 

[ullalume]

Richard Carpenter seems quite content with the utilization of Choir.

The Nevada Daily Mail, November 23rd, 1983:
"These are definitely not outtakes, meaning cuts discarded earlier as unworthy.."says Carpenter.
"Richard Carpenter had booked time in their favorite Los Angeles Studio starting February 11th."
"I think it's a beautiful combination, a great singer and a pop choir." (Richard Carpenter)

Source:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...EgrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=29UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1534,5621388

Hey Gary,

I'm not disputing the man liked a choir, otherwise he'd have left all the cuts like Ordinary Fool and Where Do I Go From Here. I was just saying had she lived, to my mind, the OK Choral would have been used far more sparingly (Look to your Dreams).

Of course I don't KNOW this, I'm just presuming.

 

[GaryAlan]

I agree with your outlook, quite understandably !
I'm hoping that the utilization of choirs/chorales/Carpettes would have been sparingly approached
had their recording career commenced.
However, my feeling has been that after all of the remixes throughout the ensuing years it remains
clear that Richard Carpenter sees little to change in either Made In America or Voice of the Heart.
He remixes 'the classic' Carpenters' songs, but changes very little with the latter two albums.
Granted, the synthesizer is removed from Those Good Old Dreams, but, he has had ample opportunity to
alter the substance of the later albums, yet feels no desire to do so (i.e., remove the chorale/choir parts).
And, even then, in with the choir on Ave Maria !
At one time, in at least one report, I seem to recall Richard Carpenter saying that had he known Voice of The Heart was
going to be released in the Fall (instead of Summer 1983) he would have utilized less of the choir/chorale sound.
(However, I am unable to locate any verification/authentication of that issue.)
But, yes, Look To Your Dreams, is but one instance where the Classic sound would have (hopefully) been enhanced.
(I still can not fathom Why the song was held off of any album during Karen's life time--it being written 1974.)

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Richard Carpenter seems quite content with the utilization of Choir.

The Nevada Daily Mail, November 23rd, 1983:
"These are definitely not outtakes, meaning cuts discarded earlier as unworthy.."says Carpenter.
"Richard Carpenter had booked time in their favorite Los Angeles Studio starting February 11th."
"I think it's a beautiful combination, a great singer and a pop choir." (Richard Carpenter)

Source:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...EgrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=29UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1534,5621388

This comment is no surprise. By 1983 (and before then, really), Richard had gone full-on "elevator". That's what makes MIA so terrible. Music for elevators with a badly-conceived bid at edginess (Want You Back).

Ed

 

[mr J.]

We disagree. Karen could do many things and had an amazing voice - no doubt. To my ears, I would never equate her vocals as soulful in any way.

Ed

Being soulful doesn't necessarily translate into screaming or shouting-being soulful has to do with expressing deep emotions in the vocals.Karen wasn't soulful in the same way that Aretha or Mahalia Jackson was-but she had a more restrained soulfulness that was more reminiscent of Billie Holiday or Sarah Vaughan,particularly on the early recordings.

Notice How Karen's bluesy vocals on "Rainy Days" convey profound sorrow,melancholy and pensiveness-that was Karen being soulful.

Notice how Karen lets loose on "Baby It's You" and the "Bacharach-David Medley"-again,that was Karen being soulful.

Incidently,Karen(unlike Streisand) always had a large Black audience.And,select tracks from the early albums did get airplay on some Soul/R&B stations around the Country.

Phyllis Hyman cited Karen as a major influence.